Mailing list notes
This web page is http://obri.net/rl/mlnotes.html
Click
here for the main page about the mailing list
Index to the web page below:
Cross-posting: Don't cross-post replies!
Quoting guidelines: Don't over-quote; quote once
Spam filters: Why some messages are bounced
Plain Text, not html: Use plain text to send
to our mailing list
Sorting and threading: putting mail into folders
What, Why and Where? Questions about the
mailing list
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Crossposting
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:12:38 -0800
From: Jay O'Brien <jayobrien@att.net>
To: Rio Linda Elverta Mailing List <riolinda@vrx.net>
Administrative message to the Rio Linda Net, please read.
Most of us belong to several mailing lists or newsgroups. I belong to about
50. That's doable as on most of them I scan the subject lines and only read
the text when the subject catches my eye.
A problem shows up from time to time when messages are indiscriminately "crossposted"
between groups, sometimes resulting in "flame wars".
ORIGINATING A CROSSPOSTED MESSAGE:
Often we have something to post that has value to several mailing lists and/or
newsgroups, and we send a message with a common subject and text to several
group addresses. That is called "cross-posting". For example, when
I was one of the first to learn of a new and worrisome computer virus, I
posted the same message to groups and lists concerned with Amateur Radio,
Water purveyors, Mercedes enthusiasts, auto racers, mailing list managers
and the Rio Linda Net. I was the originator of the correspondence thread
in each of these venues, and I responded to replies on individual lists when
appropriate. This is an example of an accepted use of "crossposting".
PLEASE DON'T CROSSPOST REPLIES:
When you "reply" to a message on a mailing list or newsgroup, please do not
crosspost the message to additional mailing lists or newsgroups. This is
impolite both to the originator of the message to which you are replying
and to the recipients of the cross-posted message where the message didn't
originate. The originator of the message has a reasonable expectation that
his/her message will be confined to the venue where it was sent. Subsequent
replies may not reach all participants of a correspondence thread because
not all readers are subscribers to all of the groups. It's this "half information"
that causes "flame wars".
POSTING SOMETHING FROM ANOTHER GROUP:
If there is something you have received as a subscriber to another mailing
list or newsgroup that you think would be of interest to still another group,
send a new message and take the responsibility as the author of the correspondence
thread. Certainly give credit to the originator of the information if appropriate,
but don't send it so it could appear to have started on a group that doesn't
include the originator.
For more information and discussion on this subject, enter "crossposting" into the Google search engine at http://www.google.com .
Thanks for listening.
Jay
------- Original Message --------
Subject: Quoting guidelines
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:42:47 -0800
From: Jay O'Brien <jayobrien@att.net>
To: Rio Linda Elverta Mailing List <riolinda@vrx.net>
Administrative message to the Rio Linda Net, please read.
Many of our subscribers use slow dial-up connections to their ISP; downloading
long (and repeated) messages takes a frustrating amount of time.
Many of our subscribers have limited mailbox size, and once their mailbox
is filled, additional messages are rejected.
Please be considerate of these subscribers when you include text in your
messages that is quoted from another message.
When you compose a reply to a message, please do not include the entire
message to which you are replying (and especially prior messages already
quoted by that message), unless it is really necessary to place your
response in context.
In general, the text of your reply should be more than the text you quote.
Some links are provided below which discuss this problem in more detail.
Thanks for your attention.
Jay
Quote once:
If someone starts a subject and five people respond, and you wish to respond
to the original and to the replies, post only one combined message, not six.
Please don't force everyone to re-read the original message six more times.
Basic Electronic Mail Netiquette:
"...Do NOT quote back the entire email message as sent to you. This wastes
bandwidth and download time. Once you hit your reply command, select the
non-essential parts of the original message and delete them! If you need
to comment or answer a query on a part of the original message, quote only
that part... not the entire message..."
http://www.kassj.com/netiquette/netiquette.html#5
RFC 1855:
Netiquette Guidelines 3.1.3 (also applies to mailing lists)
"...Read all of a discussion in progress (we call this a thread) before posting
replies. Avoid posting "Me Too" messages, where content is limited to agreement
with previous posts. Content of a follow-up post should exceed quoted content..."
http://www.stanton.dtcc.edu/stanton/cs/rfc1855.html#3
TidBITS:
Mailing List Manners 101: Quote sparingly
"One of my peeves with mailing lists is that people seldom delete unnecessary quoted text in their replies..."
http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=05386
This is a selected and edited extract from the following message:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: messages supposedly "rejected"
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:51:53 -0800
From: Jay O'Brien <jayobrien@att.net>
To: Rio Linda Elverta Mailing List <riolinda@vrx.net>
Administrative message about the Rio Linda Net, please read.
The vrx.net server that hosts the Rio Linda Net has "spam filters" that reject
mail that is identified as "spam". These filters are NOT perfect, but they
are effective in reducing the unwanted mail sent to vrx.net email addresses.
Because spam filters are NOT perfect, messages are routinely incorrectly
rejected as spam by internet mail servers. For example, a message sent on
the Rio Linda Net about identity theft was rejected by the Sacramento
Bee ISP, and was not delivered to an accessbee.com subscriber who is a member
of our Rio Linda Net. In this case the objectionable terms could have been
"Social Security Number", "VISA", "PIN", "DMV", or a combination thereof.
This is just part of living with today's internet, and rejection of a message
should not cause the sender to jump to a conclusion that censorship was imposed
or that a personal affront was intended.
One of the vrx.net spam filters looks for more than two exclamation marks
together in the subject, as three or more is a characteristic of some spam.
A message had four of them in a row in the subject. So, the spam filter returned
the message to the originator rather than forward it to the Rio Linda Net
address, riolinda@vrx.net.
Rather than send me, the list manager, an email questioning the return of
her message, the originator posted a message on another mailing list, with
the subject "Jay's list rejected my message about the Water District". Before
the issue was over, 14 messages were posted there with a "Jay's list reject..."
subject! To hopefully avoid this kind of reaction in the future, I want Rio
Linda Net subscribers to have the actual facts, not suppositions or allegations.
To repeat, there is no censoring of messages posted by Rio Linda Net subscribers,
once a message gets to the riolinda@vrx.net address.
Please, if you think there is a problem with the Rio Linda Net, I would appreciate
it if you would contact me first with your complaint or concern.
Thanks for your attention.
Jay
Want to review the UNIX "regexps" that are the actual spam filters? Click here for the header (subject) filters and click here for the filters that look at the text of the messages.
If you must use html,
rich text or anything other than plain text, please post it on a web page.
Then, in your plain text email to the mailing list, include a link to your
web page. Html belongs on web pages, and plain text belongs on mailing
lists. Thank you!
Remember: Send your messages in plain text, not in html or rich text format. The
mailing list will convert such into plain text, and any format may not
be maintained.
Some references are:
http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/listadmins/plaintext.html
http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=05397
http://obri.net/aol (AOL V6.0 and some 7.0)
http://www.geocities.com/econ_10330/encoded_email.html
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Threading
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:47:17 -0800
From: Jay O'Brien <jayobrien@att.net>
To: Jon Wolfson
Jon wrote:
If you get the immediate distribution, then your mail client
can thread messages together that have the same subject.
Hi Jay,
How do I go about threading?
Jon
Jon,
There's really two answers. First, I assume that you filter the messages
based on the [RL] into a mail folder so that they aren't interspersed with
other mail in your inbox. That's the first step.
In Netscape, you use Edit|Message filters to put the messages into a
Rio Linda folder. In Outlook, you use Tools|Message Rules|Mail to perform
the function.
The second step is to group the messages by thread. That is, all of
the messages with the same subject line show up as one line in the index
for that mail folder. You click on the plus sign on that line to "expand"
the group (thread) and show all of the messages.
In Netscape, you click on the thread button (the button with the horizontal
lines on it) which is just left of the Subject, Sender and Date column
headings. In Outlook, you use View|Current View|Group Messages by conversation.
The "Help" texts may be useful. In Netscape, look up filters and select
email filters and Creating Message filters; also look up threading and
select Sorting and Threading messages. In Outlook, look up "managing mail
messages" and select "managing mail messages with rules"; also look up
"Group messages" and select "Group messages and their replies together".
Please let me know if this is helpful. If it is, I'll post it on my
web site and link to it from the mailing list page. To see it, go to http://jay.mbz.org/rl
and select "Rio Linda-Elverta Mailing List".
Jay
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Threading
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:56:40 -0800
From: Jay O'Brien <jayobrien@att.net>
To: Jon Wolfson
Jon wrote:
Hi Jay,
For me your instructions were right on the mark. Within my
"RL" folder
I can sort the messages by subject or time or sender. It's
great.
Thanks,
Jon
Super! Thanks for the feedback.
Jay
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RL] THE WHAT, WHY AND WHERE QUESTION
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:54:17 -0800
From: "Karla A." <karla@softcom.net>
To: "Rio Linda" <riolinda@vrx.net>
Many people may not know the what, why and where of how the Rio Linda/Elverta
Net started.
Could you please share:
1. Why it was started
2. Who started it
3. How much it cost to start
4. When it was started
Thanks
Karla
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RL] THE WHAT, WHY AND WHERE QUESTION
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:36:40 -0800
From: Jay O'Brien <jayobrien@att.net>
To: Rio Linda Elverta Mailing List <riolinda@vrx.net>
Karla,
Thank you for asking.
Most of the questions you ask are answered in the web page that you
can view at http://obri.net/rl and selecting
"Rio Linda Elverta Mailing List - Information."
However, I'll take this opportunity to answer each question here.
1. Why it was started.
As an elected Director of the Rio Linda/Elverta Community Water District
(RLECWD), I want to be easily accessible to my constituents. I felt that
such a mailing list would make that happen, and I also felt that it would
be a great conduit for the RLECWD to get information to the public regarding
the need to raise rates. I felt it would give the RLECWD the opportunity
to get support from the community for the rate increases that were necessary.
2. Who started it.
I did. I am also administrator for several other mailing lists, and
I was prepared to donate my time to make it happen. As President of the
Rio Linda/Elverta Community Water District Board of Directors, I proposed
the idea to Mike Phelan, our General Manager, as a public outreach opportunity,
and he agreed that it was a viable way to communicate with the ratepayers
during the District's rate increase process.
3. How much it cost to start.
A list like ours normally costs $300/yr or more to host. However, as
I manage other mailing lists, the owner of the server was aware of my capabilities
and knew that I would handle all administrative activities; therefore I
was able to obtain special pricing from him. This mailing list costs $100/yr,
as long as I am administering it. That is what the Water District paid
for the first year, which started in July 2000. However, the RLECWD Board
of Directors disagreed with Mike Phelan and me, deciding that this mailing
list was not an appropriate means for public outreach. Based on the Board's
action, I wrote a check to the RLECWD for $100 to reimburse the District.
The RLECWD no longer has any control of this mailing list.
4. When it was started.
The first message was sent on July 26, 2000. As of tonight [Feb. 20,
2001], there are 85 subscribers.
Jay O'Brien
ListMom
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