Index to the web page below:
Harris initial complaint, states she did not see notice posted January 10, 2002
List Manager attempt to close correspondence thread
Darrow complaint that thread was closed
Harris subsequent restatement that she did not see the notice
Moore asserts that "Jay killed the thread"
Censorship discussion
Harris finally admits she was wrong
Rio Linda Elverta News Editorial January 31, 2002
 

Other Mary Harris Links:
Index to Mary Harris pages
Mary Harris fiction about Jay O'Brien spying on a neighbor
Mary Harris fiction about Jerry Wickham and Dewight Kramer (NWD)
Mary Harris fiction about Arabs celebrating Sept.11
Mary Harris CRAW letter that libels Don Flesch of the Rio Linda News
Ethics? Mary Harris' use of Jerry Wickham's stand without his permission. Pictures, letter

This documents how Mary Harris, of Mary Harris Hair Salon in Rio Linda, California, assailed the Rio Linda /Elverta Community Water District (RLECWD) without verifying the facts. Her first message below fraudulently claims that the 24 hour public notice required by the Brown Act was not given. Her allegation of this illegal action by the RLECWD was posted to the Rio Linda Net, a mailing list whose members are Rio Linda Elverta residents and/or property owners.

This also documents how Mary Harris uses her followers, who publicly support Harris' statements, right or wrong.

Harris falsely claimed that notice was not posted (in accordance with State law) on Thursday, January 10, 2002, 24 hours before a special meeting of the Board of Directors of the RLECWD.

I (Jay O'Brien) serve as a Director on that Board. On Thursday I observed the notice posted on the front door of the RLECWD office, more than 24 hours before the scheduled meeting. On Thursday I received email notification of the meeting from the General Manager before 4 PM. I reviewed the agenda, as posted on the RLECWD web site, at that time. On Thursday evening, I attended a meeting at the Rio Linda Community Center, and I observed the RLECWD agenda posted on the bulletin board at the Community Center.

I attended the noticed RLECWD Board meeting at 6 PM Friday, and I attended the continuation of the RLECWD Board meeting at 10:30 AM Saturday.

On Sunday, at 10:37 PM, Harris posted her allegation of non-compliance with the 24 hour provision of the Brown Act. I knew from first hand observation that her allegation was false. At that time I did not know how she learned of the 10:30 AM Saturday time that she mentioned, so on Sunday night, after receiving Harris' message, I drove to the District office and learned that the time had been written on the notice posted on the door. I learned later that the General Manager had written that change on the posted notice Friday night.

On Monday, I verified with the office personnel that the notice had remained posted inside the door, visible from outside, continuously since I viewed it on Thursday. I went to the Community Center and verified with the personnel there that RLECWD staff had posted the notice on the bulletin board in the Community Center before 4 PM Thursday. It was absolutely clear to me that Harris's story was false, and there were credible witnesses available to refute Harris' claims.

Based on the provocative tone of the messages that followed Harris' deceptive Sunday message,  I decided I would attempt to stop the discussion before it got out of hand. It was apparent to me that the intent was to fan the flames, backing Harris' false and deceptive claim. My attempt to stifle backfired, and in retrospect I should have just left the perpetrators alone to do themselves in on their own.

The discussion then turned to me, and how terrible it is that I would try to stop a discussion. Some even asserted that I was somehow controlling the communication on the mailing list, in effect censoring the discussion.

Harris reiterated her claim that the notice was not timely posted. She drew in more followers, also using them to further her false allegation.

Ultimately, Harris was obliged to admit that her allegations were false, and then she received accolades for coming clean. What is interesting is that she credits Sandy Nelson for setting her straight on what day she was driving by the Water District office. This is after Sandy Nelson posted messages in support of Harris' deceptive and false allegation about when she drove by the office.

The Rio Linda Elverta News picked up on the email discussion and published many of the messages copied below on January 24th. The issue was part of the editorial discussion in the January 31 News.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RL] Special meeting
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:37 PM PST
From: "Mary Harris" <misscaddy@softcom.net>
To: "Rio Linda/Elverta" <riolinda@vrx.net>

Looks like the water district has held a couple of special meetings (1-11-02 Friday 6pm and Saturday 10:30am) with out posting them on this list.  The very list that we were told would be for information.  I did not see that notice posted on the district office door Thursday evening, giving the public a 24hr notice.  Would anyone like to explain this one?  Do we now have a new general manager?

[Note: Darrow does not live within RLECWD]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [RL] Special meeting
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:53 PM PST
From: "Chris Darrow" <cadarrow@attbi.com>
To: <riolinda@vrx.net>

Yes where was the public notice placed?

Christopher Darrow

[Note: Charlea Moore is not a RLECWD ratepayer, although she does reside in the district]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL] Special meeting
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 3:12 PM PST
From: cgamail@juno.com
To: riolinda@vrx.net

Hello Water District, Board Members, anyone -  can't anyone answer Mary's questions????  Inquiring minds want to know!
Charlea

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL] Special meeting
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 1:18 PM PST
From: Jay O'Brien <jayobrien@att.net>
To: Rio Linda Elverta Mailing List <riolinda@vrx.net>

This thread has gone far enough. It's taken on a life of its own. As mailing list owner, I'll step in and try to stop it now.

I can't speak for other Water Board Directors or for the General Manager, but when I received the provocative and non-factual message quoted below, I decided to ignore it.

"Looks like the water district has held a couple of special meetings (1-11-02 Friday 6pm and Saturday 10:30am) with out posting them on this list.  The very list that we were told would be for information. I did not see that notice posted on the district office door Thursday evening, giving the public a 24hr notice..."

As far as the notice not being posted on the Rio Linda net, anyone interested should ask our General Manager. My guess is that he would respond that since there are now three or more email lists for the Community, thanks to the new lists on Yahoo, that he can't pick and choose which one(s) on which to place a courtesy message. What he CAN do is follow the law.

The special meeting notice may be viewed at the following url: http://www.geocities.com/riolindawater/Board/02agenda/020111ag.html

The above notice may be also reached via the RLECWD web site: http://riolindaelverta.com

The closed session was continued to 10:30 AM Saturday, as marked on the notice on the District's front door after the Friday evening meeting.

There was nothing to report from the closed session.

I trust this will put this divisive correspondence thread to rest (TID).

Jay

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL] Special meeting
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 4:28 PM
From: "Keven Wathier and/or Paula E. Parker,DVM" <sawlogz@ix.netcom.com>
To: riolinda@vrx.net

Jay, what is TID?  That's an abbreviation I haven't seen before.  Thanks to Chris, I now have learned another new one (J/K = just kidding....)
Thanks.
--
Pollie Parker, DVM

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL] Special meeting
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 4:47 PM PST
From: Jay O'Brien <jayobrien@att.net>
To: Rio Linda Elverta Mailing List <riolinda@vrx.net>

Pollie,

"TID" means "Thread Is Dead" in "list/newsgroup moderator-speak".

Jay
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL] Special meeting (fwd)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 7:41 PM PST
From: "joe wilgis" <joejan@concentric.net>
To: <riolinda@vrx.net>

Spin Spin Spin, that's what you do....Spin Spin Spin....Put someone down to try to make yourself seem to be 'right'....we should call you the 'spinner'....
'Good  Ole' Joe said that!

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL] Special meeting
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 8:28 PM PST
From: SNelson840@aol.com
To: riolinda@vrx.net

If we have a new general manager that is probably a secret too.  Don't worry you won't get any answers from the ones who should be sharing the information, nor will you get any questions answered.
Sandy

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL] Special meeting
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 8:54 PM PST
From: SNelson840@aol.com
To: riolinda@vrx.net

You are soooo RIGHT!!
Sandy

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL] Special meeting (fwd)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 8:56 PM PST
From: SNelson840@aol.com
To: riolinda@vrx.net

Your right, so do we have a new general manager or what?  Does anyone know?
Sandy

[Harris re-states her claim that she "did not see the notice on the door"]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RL] Special meeting
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:23 PM PST
From: "Mary Harris" <misscaddy@softcom.net>
To: "Rio Linda/Elverta" <riolinda@vrx.net>

Dear Mr. O'Brien,

You stated... The reason you decided to ignore my note (among many) was because you had personal knowledge that the meeting notice was properly posted and the agenda was posted on the Districts web site by 4 PM Thursday. You also say that all legal requirements for posting were met. (OK)... ( How about a simple courtesy notice) Thus, any response would question the motive, integrity or honesty of the person who posted the message quoted above... (meaning me.)  How would you like it, if Mr. Roger Dickinson posted a 24 hr notice on the front door of his office giving Rio Linda a 24 hr notice... Attention!!! Board of Supervisors are meeting with FPL?  What would be their motive and would you like it if he was questioning your integrity or honesty if you spoke out to ask why?

I don't believe I have missed many water board meeting, sense I became involved with helping defeat that 100% rate increase.  I trust that you might understand why I would want know about meetings.

I guess I have come to expect an email notice from Mike when there is a meeting taking place.  I would also like to say, that I sent Mike an email last week asking him, why the new water rate's were not updated on http://www.geocities.com/riolindawater/Board/02agenda/020111ag.html  No response or no change on that site as of today.

Jay, I drove by and I will repeat... I did not see the notice on the door... (TID)

You were the one who sent me an email asking if I wanted to be on this list. I didn't join this group to be called names or be disrespected.   I may be abrasive with some of my question but I try not to be disrespectful and I would like to see this thread of animosity gone...

Mary

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL] Special meeting (fwd)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 4:35 AM PST
From: "joe wilgis" <joejan@concentric.net>
To: <riolinda@vrx.net>

Spinning wheel got to go round......
'Good Ole' Joe to quote a song!!!

[Interesting how Charlea Moore thinks I have consistently notified the list (it was the GM, not me)]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL] Special meeting
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 1:53 PM PST
From: cgamail@juno.com
To: riolinda@vrx.net

Hi Chris, that response did kind of bother me.  It doesn't seem right that someone can "kill" a thread just because they don't like the content.

I'm puzzeled as to why Jay has very consistently notified this list of the regular meetings and why the Water District General Manager wouldn't just continue to post to this list as in the past.  Every RLCWD meeting has been noticed here including the special ones so why not these????
It's a mystery.
Charlea

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL] Special meeting (fwd)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 2:04 PM PST
From: cgamail@juno.com
To: riolinda@vrx.net

Hi Joe, don't know you and haven't met you but it does seem strange that you would call restating exactly what Jay said as "spin".  Jay's the one that killed the thread, why do you think he did that?  What's the problem with letting folks talk about what they want to talk about.

Aren't you even curious about why those meetings weren't posted on the list when all the others have been?   I am.

There's lots of threads I would have been happy to kill if that were possible but Jay liked them I guess, because he let them rollllllll onnnnnnnn and onnnnnnnn.

So what was so disturbing that he found it necessary to kill this one.
Charlea

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL] Special meeting (fwd)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 2:10 PM PST
From: cgamail@juno.com
To: riolinda@vrx.net

Hey Joe, I think you might be getting dizzy on that wheel.  :-)
Charlea

[A message sent to the Rio Linda Net from the moderator of the Yahoo group. It is  apparent that this message was only intended for his mailing list. It is as if he doesn't know the proper address for each list.]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL] Special meeting
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 2:49 PM PST
From: cadarrow@attbi.com
To: riolinda@vrx.net

Kind of funny how we are not seeing the input of the other lists Moderator. Explaining himself and the arbitrary use of his power. He just made this issue even bigger then it was before. It was dwindling down but then he decided to "TID" the thread. I think that if you are going to exercise such power and authority over a list it must be done in a fair, balanced, equal and across the board basis. Not just on the threads he does not like. And If I remember right did he or did he not say he does not censor the list. Yet he has decided to KILL the Thread! Is that not censorship? The moderator of the list telling us what we can and cannot talk about on this list. More so then ever the fact that the issue in which is being discussed is a political one. He may try to say it is not but it very much is so. Citizens complaining in an open forum about a Quiz Government organization. Of which he is an elected member of the citizens of that district. Just something to think about...

Chris

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL] Special meeting
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 7:18 PM PST
From: cadarrow@attbi.com
To: riolinda@vrx.net

Boy dont you love how he can decide that we are not allowed to talk about this any more. All the more reason why need the other list!

Chris

[Note that the next message was obviously only intended for the Yahoo groups mailing list that Chris Darrow runs, yet it was posted to both lists]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL] Special meeting (fwd)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 7:25 PM PST
From: cadarrow@attbi.com
To: riolinda@yahoogroups.com,
       riolinda@vrx.net

Dont you love the fact that Jay decides what we are and are not allowed to talk about? You nitice when the issues delt with me and the invitation (was it spam or not) situation went on for a week it was fine. But when there is a thread that deals with him and his Water Dist he is more then happy to kill the thread. I am more happy then ever now that I started this list as we can talk about issues that Jay does not want us to.

Chris

PS. I make this promise now I will not kill any threads on this list. If members want to talk about it. They should be able to.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RL] Re: [RioLinda-Elverta] Killing Threads
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 7:53 PM PST
From: cgamail@juno.com
To: riolinda@yahoogroups.com,
       riolinda@vrx.net

Hi Chris and Jeff,

I believe that Jay really did "kill'' the thread and all responses to it.  I replied to several folks on that issue but none have come through on the list so I think Jay really did censor that thread and any new replys that referenced it.
Charlea

ps - I'm sending this to both lists but I'll bet dimes to donut holes it only shows up on one.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [RL] Re: [RioLinda-Elverta] Killing Threads
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 8:02 PM PST
From: "Chris Darrow" <cadarrow@attbi.com>
To: <riolinda@vrx.net>

If he did Kill the Thread it would still make it through because the Subject line has changed.

Christopher Darrow

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RL] Censorship
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 9:03 PM PST
From: Jay O'Brien <jayobrien@att.net>
To: Rio Linda Elverta Mailing List <riolinda@vrx.net>

Nothing has been or will be censored on this list. If something is sent to the list and it doesn't get sent to the subscribers, it is because the sender did something wrong, such as attaching a file, sending from an address not subscribed, sending the post to the wrong address, or because the sender made some other mistake.

I suggested that a thread was dead, because the original post was a gross misstatement of facts. However, it has now become a discussion of the fact that I said the thread was dead. At least that is a fact; I did express my opinion that the thread was dead.

Unlike the web-based lists, like Yahoo, I can't "delete" what has already been posted, even if I wanted to do so.

If anyone thinks I have the time or inclination to "censor", please review the source of the messages you receive. You will see that the messages are distributed within seconds of when they are sent by the originator.

Jay

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL] Special meeting (fwd)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:02 PM PST
From: cadarrow@attbi.com
To: riolinda@vrx.net,
       riolinda@yahoogroups.com

No spin in that. Did he or did he not kill the thread? Did he do that in regards to the threads dealing with my email? No he did not. And the threads about the SPAM issue were much larger and lasted longer... Himm think about it. It is not spin. It is true.

Chris

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [RL] Censorship
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 8:11 AM PST
From: "Chris Darrow" <cadarrow@attbi.com>
To: <riolinda@vrx.net>

This is to everyone other then Jay....

If the message does not get posted to the list I truly believe it is not Jays fault. There can be other factors. His server for one or other routers on the net or the senders isp. There are all kinds of factors for this.

OK this part is for Jay...

The manner that you stated that the thread was TID was not suggestive but as if it was a matter of fact. You opened the email with "This thread has gone far enough. It's taken on a life of its own. As mailing list owner, I'll step in and try to stop it now." Then you closed it with "I trust this will put this divisive correspondence thread to rest (TID)." Then in the response to the question what is TID you stated ""TID" means "Thread Is Dead" in "list/newsgroup moderator-speak"."

So those posts made it seam that you acting as list owner was stopping the thread and no further discussion on the issue was to be permitted.

If that was not your intention then fine so be it. It would turn out that we all can make mistakes doesn't it.

Christopher Darrow

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RL] eating humble pie
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 6:19 PM PST
From: "Mary Harris" <misscaddy@softcom.net>
To: "Rio Linda/Elverta" <riolinda@vrx.net>
CC: "Jay O'Brien" <jayobrien@att.net>,
        "Charlea" <Charhorseranch@aol.com>,
        "Jeff Culley" <jeffculley@home.com>,
        "Chris Darrow" <cadarrow@attbi.com>

Dear Mike, Jay, Charlea, Jeff, Chris and all,

I want to apologize for my remarks [see above] about not seeing a 24 hr notice posted on the water district office door.  I didn't see that notice Thursday because, after talking with Sandy Nelson, I realized I had made a mistake on which day I went by the office.  I am very sorry about the error and my hasty conclusions.  This has been a weight on my mind until I could correct it and admit that I was wrong.

As Jay rightly pointed out, a mistake had been made...  However, I also want everyone to know that there was no intention to deceive anyone...  I really thought it was Thursday.

eating humble pie
Mary

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RL] Mary Harris's apology
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:07 AM PST
From: cgamail@juno.com
To: riolinda@vrx.net

Hi Mary,  I just want you to know that in my opinion it takes a big person to publicly admit their error and offer apologies.  Everyone makes mistakes and the real harm isn't in the mistake, but in refusing to admit the mistake and apologise.

Some people's egos are just to fragile to ever admit an error and certainly they can't apologise.  You are secure enough to do so. My respect for you goes up everytime you behave with morals and ethics that are so admirable.

Charlea

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RL]
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 6:36 PM PST
From: "Mary Harris" <misscaddy@softcom.net>
To: <riolinda@vrx.net>

HEY!!!  Who you calling BIG...  Thank you Charlea, what a sweet thing to say.

Mary

[Note that Harris responds to Jeff Culley's private message by posting it to the Net.]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [RL] eating humble pie
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 10:31 PM PST
From: "Mary Harris" <misscaddy@softcom.net>
To: "Rio Linda/Elverta" <riolinda@vrx.net>

Thanks Jeff, I figured it best to address each person who took the time to respond.
take care Mary
_____________________________

You are ok in my book Mary,
No need to apologize to me (Jeff) as it had nothing to do with me personally.
Appreciate the thought though,
Jeff