3/02/02 Post to ATT WN Newsgroup. Description of setup, request for comments
3/14/02 To ATT NG Describing large file problem
3/14/02 From ATT NG "the same thing happens (to me)"
3/14/02 To ATT NG "where should I get help on this problem?"
3/14/02 From ATT NG "try the stunnel page'
3/16/02 To Netscape Communicator Newsgroup asking for help
3/16/02 To stunnel mailing list asking for help
3/28/02 To ATT NG asking again for help
3/28/02 ATT does not use or support stunnel
3/28/02 Ask again for review of problem by ATT
3/28/02 Will pass to WURD folks
3/28/02 WURD folks may help

To Forum Assistants, others:

I am now successfully using Netscape 4.79 via stunnel to send and receive email over my DSL connection. I've built a new user profile in Netscape that shares the mail (and other) files with the original profile, which I can run if there is a need for a dial-up non-SSL connect.

I am using this in conjunction with a multihoming arrangement on my home network that (depending on the routing commands I run) automatically dials up to ATT when I need to get to something that must be dialed up, like Member services, the Beta site, and the like.

I've chronicled my process, mostly for my own reference when I have to troubleshoot or rebuild it in the future. I would appreciate a review and comments from the FAs (and anyone else who may be interested). Especially comments on the "Open Issues" at the end of the discussion.

See http://obri.net/tech/attssl.html . This includes a link to my discussion on multihoming.

Jay O'Brien
 

This was my first message to the ATT Worldnet Help newsgroup asking for assistance with the large file problem.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Problem sending large attached file using SSL
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:24:31 GMT
From: Jay O'Brien <jayobrien@att.net>
Organization: AT&T Worldnet
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.software.mail.netscape

I'm using Netscape 4.79 and Win98SE on two different computers. This problem exists on both computers. I recently installed stunnel and I'm using imailhost.worldnet.att.net for SMTP service. If I attach a 269K jpg file it goes through fine. However, if I attach a 1MB jpg file to an email message, it doesn't complete.

Sending the email with the 1MB file attached, when the Status window shows that 100% has been sent, it then changes to read "Mail: Message sent; waiting for reply..." At this point, if I click on the "Cancel" button in that window, the message stays on the screen ready to be sent again. However, the message is actually sent by the SMTP server at the time I click on "Cancel". The message does NOT move into the "Sent" folder. The recipient gets the message and the file, but I don't have any indication that it was actually sent.

If I don't click "Cancel", after 12 minutes or so the window changes to read as follows:
 

Netscape
An error occurred while sending mail.
The mail server responded:
 mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net lost connection to [216.xxx.xxx.xxx]. Please check the message and try again.

And this time, the mail is NOT sent to the recipient addresses. Note the above IP filled in with xxx is my static IP number I have via DSL, and the number after mtiwmhc varies depending on the connection. I've seen 21 and 23.

Using one of these computers, I connected via dial-up to worldnet, using the non-SSL SMTP mailhost.att.net. The email with the 1MB file sends just fine and completes as expected (it takes 8 minutes instead of 2 minutes via DSL). Then, continuing to use the dial-up connection, I sent the email and 1MB file via stunnel and SSL to imailhost.worldnet.att.net. I obtained the same results as when using DSL; it did not complete but was sent to the addressee when I hit "Cancel".  My conclusion was that the SSL connect using stunnel wouldn't complete the necessary handshaking to tell Netscape to move the message into the "Sent" folder.

Before asserting that conclusion here, I loaded 4.79 on a third computer, which is running WinMe. I sent the same email and file, and it completes fine!

Summary: 4.79/SSL/Win98Se has problem; 4.79/SSL/WinMe works fine.

What next? I really don't want to install WinMe in the two computers running Win98Se; I would like to find the problem and fix it.

Jay O'Brien
 

Response from Forum Assistant who experiences the same condition.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Problem sending large attached file using SSL
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:51:16 GMT
From: FA Briana <fa0390@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Worldnet
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.software.mail.netscape
 

Jay,

I also use the same version of NS your using and the same thing happens when I send a file attachment.

I was saving the email in the draft folder when I would press cancel on the popup box.

You're correct in that the message has always been sent and received by the recipient but wasn't saved in the sent folder.

As to why this happens I don't have any answers for you. I just know I have never had one not go out when I clicked cancel. I don't wait as long as you have but at the bottom of the popup window it shows it was sent and is waiting for reply. That's when I press cancel and save it to my drafts folder.

I wouldn't wait any longer as you have but continue to press cancel and save it to a draft folder.

I have never had one recipient tell me they haven't received the attachment I was sending them so I know it works this way.

I do not know if there is a solution or work around for this as I have checked into it but this is the way NS4.79 works using the imail features and stunnel.

I know it isn't the answer you wanted but it is all I have for you at this time.
 

Suggestions on getting help?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Problem sending large attached file using SSL
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:18:47 GMT
From: Jay O'Brien <jayobrien@att.net>
Organization: AT&T Worldnet
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.software.mail.netscape

Briana,

Thanks for the answer. As you said, it isn't the answer I wanted, and I must press on for a better one. After all, if something DID go wrong at the end of the transmission, you as the sender don't know if the message was sent. Further, you don't get an automatic record of what was sent by virtue of the message NOT going into the SENT folder.

Are you also using Win98SE?

Do you have any clue why WinMe seems to work?

Do you have any suggestions where/how I should get help on this problem? I can't write a procedure for others to follow with this inconsistency based on attachment file size.

Jay
 

Try the stunnel page?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Problem sending large attached file using SSL
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:43:41 GMT
From: FA Briana <fa0390@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Worldnet
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.software.mail.netscape

Jay,

As I mentioned whenever I have sent attachments to someone they have always replied and I have never had anyone tell me they didn't receive it. That's not to say it won't/can't happen but unlikely comes to mind.

I use Windows XP and haven't used ME in a very long time so I cannot answer why it would work.

It is with stunnel that this happens because when I use my cable access alone and send attachments it doesn't happen. But, not everyone has cable access accounts to use so that isn't an option for everyone.

As to where you can get help about this you could try the stunnel page and ask what, if anything may be done when using stunnel.

For now as it is using stunnel saving the message/attachment in draft folder is what I and others do for those just in case it didn't send messages.

The other option is using Outlook Express which doesn't require using stunnel but I choose not to do that. The choice is up to each of us to decide what we want to do about using Netscape and stunnel.

I'm sorry I don't have the answer but sometimes there aren't answers to everything we want/need to do.
 

Query sent to Netscape help newsgroup - no response received
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Problem sending large file 4.79/98Se using stunnel/SSL
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:10:24 -0800
From: Jay O'Brien <jayobrien@att.net>
Organization: Another Netscape Collabra Server User
Newsgroups: netscape.communicator

ATT Worldnet has made their SMTP and POP3 servers available for general internet use, using SSL. Their workaround for Netscape 4.79 is to use stunnel to encrypt/decrypt, as 4.79 does not have native SSL capability. It works fine, except for the problem described below.

As I followed the ATT instructions, I went to their "netscape" newsgroup first for support. That thread is copied below. Sympathy I got, but no fix. I would appreciate any thoughts and suggestions from the esteemed gurus on this newsgroup. Thank you!

I apologize for the size of this original post, but IMHO this is the best way to tell the story. I've reformatted it to read "down".

Jay O'Brien

See http://obri.net/tech/attssl.html for my writeup on my configuration; it includes links to the ATT instructions for SSL stunnel and Netscape.
(copy of prior worldnet newsgroup posts included in this post)
 

Query sent to stunnel mailing list - received responses wondering why I was using stunnel in this way, but no help on the problem
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Netscape SSMTP large attachments don't complete
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:14:58 -0800
From: Jay O'Brien <jayobrien@att.net>
Reply-To: stunnel-users@mirt.net
To: stunnel-users@mirt.net

Following ATT Worldnet's instructions, I set up stunnel to allow me to use Netscape 4.79 (using Windows98SE) and SSL. My setup and references to all the ATT instructions may be reviewed on my web page at http://obri.net/tech/attssl.html . It works fine, EXCEPT that when I send email with large attachments, the message transmission is not properly terminated. Even though the message is successfully sent, Netscape is not properly informed. In netscape, hitting the "Cancel" button causes the message to be sent by the SMTP server. I tried using -t 600 to extend the timeout, but that makes no difference. Note: the problem is not present when using the same connection to ATT and using their open SMTP; it is only present when SSL/stunnel is imposed and the secure SMTP is used.

I found a previous thread on this subject (thread.1395) which started in October, but a fix was not stated.

Suggestions please? Captures from stunnel with explanations follow.

Jay O'Brien
Rio Linda, CA USA

C:\stunnel>stunne~1 -V

stunnel 3.22 on x86-pc-mingw32-gnu WIN32 with OpenSSL 0.9.6b 9 Jul 2001

Default behaviour:
        run in daemon mode
        run in foreground
        run in ssl server mode (unless -c used)

Compile time defaults:
        -v level        no verify
        -a directory    (none)
        -A file         (none)
        -S sources      2
        -t timeout      300 seconds
        -B bytes        64
        -D level        5
        -p pemfile      in server mode: stunnel.pem
                        in client mode: none

Socket option defaults:
        Option          Accept    Local     Remote    OS default
        SO_DEBUG            --        --        --             0
        SO_DONTROUTE        --        --        --             0
        SO_KEEPALIVE        --        --        --             0
        SO_LINGER           --        --        --    0:0
        SO_OOBINLINE        --        --        --             0
        SO_RCVBUF           --        --        --          8192
        SO_SNDBUF           --        --        --          8192
        SO_RCVLOWAT         --        --        --        --
        SO_SNDLOWAT         --        --        --        --
        SO_RCVTIMEO         --        --        --        -1:0
        SO_SNDTIMEO         --        --        --        -1:0
        SO_REUSEADDR             1    --        --             0
        TCP_NODELAY         --        --        --             0
 

C:\stunnel>

explanation:
11:26:21 invoke stunnel: start /m C:\stunnel\stunnel-3.22.exe -t 600 -c -d 25 -r imailhost.worldnet.att.net:465
11:27:35 started sending email with large attachment (1MB+)
11:29:45 (no display entry made by stunnel) sending completed
11:30:26 I hit "Cancel" in Netscape status window

stunnel results:
2002.03.16 11:26:21 LOG5[10287171:9258903]: Using 'imailhost.worldnet.att.net.465' as tcpwrapper service name
2002.03.16 11:26:21 LOG5[10287171:9258903]: stunnel 3.22 on x86-pc-mingw32-gnu WIN32 with OpenSSL 0.9.6b 9 Jul 2001
2002.03.16 11:26:21 LOG5[10287171:9258903]: FD_SETSIZE=4096, file ulimit=-1 (unlimited) -> 2000 clients allowed
2002.03.16 11:27:35 LOG5[10287171:10286055]: imailhost.worldnet.att.net.465 connected from 127.0.0.1:1334
2002.03.16 11:30:26 LOG3[10287171:10286055]: SSL_read (SSL_ERROR_SYSCALL): Connection reset by peer (WSAECONNRESET) (10054)
2002.03.16 11:30:26 LOG5[10287171:10286055]: Connection reset: 1406575 bytes sent to SSL, 561 bytes sent to socket

explanation:
11:34:44 invoke stunnel: start /m C:\stunnel\stunnel-3.22.exe -t 600 -c -d 25 -r imailhost.worldnet.att.net:465
11:35:26 started sending email with medium sized attachement (300K)
11:36:03 sending completed

stunnel results:
2002.03.16 11:34:44 LOG5[8853567:12064795]: Using 'imailhost.worldnet.att.net.465' as tcpwrapper service name
2002.03.16 11:34:45 LOG5[8853567:12064795]: stunnel 3.22 on x86-pc-mingw32-gnu WIN32 with OpenSSL 0.9.6b 9 Jul 2001
2002.03.16 11:34:45 LOG5[8853567:12064795]: FD_SETSIZE=4096, file ulimit=-1 (unlimited) -> 2000 clients allowed
2002.03.16 11:35:26 LOG5[8853567:8857363]: imailhost.worldnet.att.net.465 connected from 127.0.0.1:1342
2002.03.16 11:36:03 LOG3[8853567:8857363]: SSL_read (SSL_ERROR_SYSCALL): Connection reset by peer (WSAECONNRESET) (10054)
2002.03.16 11:36:03 LOG5[8853567:8857363]: Connection reset: 377688 bytes sent to SSL, 626 bytes sent to socket

I've converted over to using stunnel and SSL for email using Netscape 4.79. See http://obri.net/tech/attssl.html for details.

Sending large files (40-200K and more) are now a problem that was not present using dial-up and not using stunnel. I've raised the issue in the ATT software.mail.netscape newsgroup but the problem seems to not be endemic to Netscape itself; rather it is a result of using stunnel to implement SSL.

Please review http://obri.net/att/ssl.html for details.

As Netscape works fine without stunnel, and as there isn't a "stunnel" ATT newsgroup, I'm posting here in mail-server.

The situation is not acceptable; Netscape does not send the files unless you "cancel" the transmission when it does not complete. When the file is actually sent, you have no indication that it was sent. I am obliged to send myself bcc copies and then place the bcc's into the "sent" folder manually. Rube Goldberg comes to mind.

Hopefully AT&T is supporting the stunnel folks and will have some leverage in dealing with them and determining what the problem is and how to correct it. Stunnel doesn't respond to me, as you will see by reviewing my web page on the issue. I also have not peaked any interest in the issue at Netscape.

What must be done to get the AT&T engineers who established the procedure for us to use stunnel to work on this problem and find a fix for me so it works right?

Jay O'Brien
Rio Linda, CA

ATT does not use or support stunnel
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: SMTP/stunnel SSL large file completion issue
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:02:51 GMT
From: AT&T Marie Gonzalez <mgonzalez@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.mail-server

Good evening Jay,

ATT does not use nor support stunnel.  It offers SSL access to email. Stunnel is one of the ways users have found to connect via SSL with programs that do not offer native SSL support, such as Netscape.

If you routinely send large files, you may want to explore other methods of connecting to the SSL servers.

Sorry.

ATT suggested stunnel to me
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: SMTP/stunnel SSL large file completion issue
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:10:19 GMT
From: Jay O'Brien <jayobrien@att.net>
Organization: AT&T Worldnet
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.mail-server

Marie,

Let me remind you that ATT suggested the use of stunnel to me. If I recommend something to someone, I take some responsibility for my recommendation. I expect the same from ATT. Do I understand correctly that ATT is unwilling to help me to resolve this apparent incompatibility, recommended initially to me by ATT?  All I'm asking is that whomever established the stunnel process for ATT customers, as documented in WURD web pages, review the problem. Is that not possible?

Jay O'Brien

Review suggestion pass to WURD folks: disclaimer
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: SMTP/stunnel SSL large file completion issue
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:22:25 GMT
From: AT&T Marie Gonzalez <mgonzalez@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.mail-server

Good evening Jay,

We will pass your suggestion to review the Netscape/stunnel process to the WURD folks for a possible addition of information regarding issues. One thing to note about the WURD, as is posted at the bottom of each page including the stunnel page:

This website is provided by AT&T WorldNet Service as a User's Solutions Website. AT&T does not approve, support, warrant, guarantee or otherwise endorse any information contained in this website nor any of the information linked to from this site. Use at your own risk.

WURD involvement may help: disclaimer
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: SMTP/stunnel SSL large file completion issue
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:32:13 GMT
From: Jay O'Brien <jayobrien@att.net>
Organization: AT&T Worldnet
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.mail-server

Marie,

Thank you. I believe that if we get the appropriate person looking into this problem, it is something that can be corrected. Please provide the WURD folks a link to my web page at http://obri.net/att/ssl.html .

I have read and understand the disclaimers at the the bottom of each WURD page. I don't, however, understand the words to mean that ATT will purposely "leave you out to dry" and not attempt to resolve problems brought to ATT's attention. I've broken my pick, and I'm asking for some help.

Jay O'Brien

we will look at it
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: SMTP/stunnel SSL large file completion issue
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:34:06 GMT
From: AT&T Marie Gonzalez <mgonzalez@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.mail-server

Good evening Jay,

You are welcome.  I do not know how much can be done, other than posting a warning of issues, as Worldnet does not maintain stunnel nor Netscape. But we will look at it.