-------- Original Message --------
Subject: ATT is using its customers to carry spam
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 04:39:48 GMT
From: Jay O'Brien <jayobrien@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Dear "worldnetpresident@att.net",

I am writing to you because I am unhappy about an unannounced change that has been made to the AT&T worldnet service message center. Every email sent by a customer using the message center now has AT&T advertising added to that private email. This started last week.

Please review the correspondence I have compiled for your review at http://obri.net/att/spam.html .

I would appreciate the prompt removal of this intrusive, unwanted spam from each email I send using the AT&T worldnet message center.

Thank you.

Jay O'Brien

CC: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions newsgroup

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT is using its customers to carry spam
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 04:39:52 +0000
From: "Auto-reply from worldnetpresident@worldnet.att.net" <worldnetpresident@worldnet.att.net>
To: jayobrien@att.net

Dear WorldNet Service Customer:

The WorldNet Service President's Office is in receipt of the e-mail message that you recently sent.  We will respond shortly to your comments or concerns.  This auto-reply response ensures that we have your e-mail and it is not necessary to resend your message.

Thank you!

The WorldNet Service President's Office

On April 30, 2002, I received a telephone call from Mr. Ron Gherman of the AT&T Worldnet Executive Office. He apologized for taking so long to get back to me, but he did confirm that the tagline messages were gone forever. He told me I could quote him on that. I asked him to send me email confirming this statement of policy, and he sent the following to me.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Tagline Content
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:33:39 -0400
From: <gherman@att.com>
To: <jayobrien@att.net>

Dear Mr. O'Brien:

Thank you for the opportunity for me to discuss your concern regarding your AT&T Worldnet service. On behalf of our company, I would like to extend our most sincere apology for the length of time you have taken to obtain closure of this matter. Please be assured that your feedback is helpful to us in understanding the needs of our customers.

Mr. O'Brien, I apologize again for the difficulties you have experienced, and I thank you for pursuing this matter and bringing it to our attention. We appreciate you giving us the opportunity to improve. As of April 9th,2002 there will be no more AT&T advertisings added to the content of our customers email. As a result AT&T Worldnet will not be implementing this sort of advertisement in the future.

Your satisfaction with our company is important to us and we look forward to another opportunity to accommodate your needs in the future. If you would like to discuss this matter further, please feel free to contact me at 1-210-691-7151.

Sincerely,

Ron Gherman
Executive Complaints Manager

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:37:18 GMT
From: Jay O'Brien <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

I posted this first in the worldnet.help.software.mail.msg-ctr because the problem originates with use of the message center. As the copied messages below state, I was referred to this "service issues suggestions group where the AT&T folks reside".

This SPAMMING by AT&T is NOT ETHICAL. I do not wish to be an unwilling carrier of AT&T advertisements.

The policy below is copied from http://www.att.com/privacy/ . When I use message center email to send to myself or to my other five addresses, or to any other AT&T address that has chosen to not receive direct marketing communications from AT&T, AT&T violates the policy stated below.

Customer Choice: A customer may choose not to receive direct marketing communications from AT&T in connection with AT&T online services. Upon such choice, AT&T (a) will not contact that customer directly with marketing messages about AT&T online services, and (b) will not use customer identifiable information obtained from that customer's registration for or use of an online service to contact that customer with marketing messages about any AT&T products or services. A customer may choose not to receive such messages by e-mail, by mail, or by telephone.

SPAMMING by AT&T is NOT ETHICAL.

Jay O'Brien

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:55:38 GMT
From: Jay O'Brien <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.software.mail.msg-ctr

I had occasion to send email today using the message center. I am distressed to observe that after each message AT&T is now inserting an advertisement, exactly in the manner of the free web-based email services -- Yahoo, Hotmail, Juno and the like.

This is copied from the end of a message I sent today using the message center:

------------------------------------------------
Get the award winning ISP, AT&T WorldNet Service
http://download.att.net/webtag

I pay full tilt for the AT&T service. My mail is not a "free" service paid for by ads inserted into the mail I send. AT&T does not have my permission to add their ad to every email I send using the web-based SECURE message center server.

What is the justification for this affront to AT&T Worldnet subscribers?

What can I do to get the SPAM removed from messages sent from my email addresses?

I find it difficult to believe that AT&T would lower itself to this level. This behavior is NOT ETHICAL.

Jay O'Brien

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:10:07 GMT
From: Mritunjay Sinha <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.software.mail.msg-ctr

AT&T FAs
 I never noticed this. This is NOT acceptable.  I don't want to pay for AT&T ads. this way.  AT&T being a paid service,  I don't expect any thing added to my messages.
 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:43:17 GMT
From: FA Dante <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Worldnet
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.software.mail.msg-ctr

Hello:

I agree with you one hundred present. Unfortunately, the FAs have no control over this issue. I suggest using a POP3 email client such as Outlook Express or Netscape. This tagline does not apply to POP3 based mail. You may also want to post your suggestions or complaints in our service issues suggestions group where the AT&T folks reside.  news:worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

FA Dante - AT&T WorldNet Service Forum Assistant

/END/

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:48:47 GMT
From: "AT&T Mike Stewart" <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Jay

Thanks for your comments and your interpretation of the privacy policy, it will be shared with management verbatim.

I don't have answers for your questions at this time, should they become available then we will post them here.
--
Michael Stewart
AT&T WorldNet Service Customer Care
PWP, MSWS, E-mail & BetaSite Liaison

Michael,

Can you get someone to give us AT&T's official version of the policy?
--
Littleguy

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:51:24 GMT
From: AT&T Marie Gonzalez <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Good afternoon Mark,

Mike is gone for the day, but we will forward your request for an official interpretation.
--
Marie Gonzalez
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:48:22 GMT
From: Jay O'Brien <@att.net>
ewsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Michael,

Please share my compilation of this issue with management. I have placed it on line at http://obri.net/att/spam.html.

Jay O'Brien

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:54:34 GMT
From: "AT&T Mike Stewart" <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Jay

Thanks for your comments and yes we will definitely include the URL to your compilation of this issue in our reports to management.
--
Michael Stewart
AT&T WorldNet Service Customer Care
PWP, MSWS, E-mail & BetaSite Liaison

Please add my objections to this practice.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 02:35:03 GMT
From: "AT&T Ellen Norberg" <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Jim,

We will be sure to do so, thanks.
--
Ellen Norberg
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 05:11:15 GMT
From: "Kathryn Simpson" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

While you are at it, please add my objections as well!  The following is for management...

Dear Policy Makers,

I use the web based email feature when I'm away on business or vacation, but am appalled and embarrassed that some of my outgoing web based email may have contained content that I was unaware of, especially web based email sent to my business clients.

Tagging my outgoing email with a marketing ploy is completely tacky and akin to handing out a business card with an advertisement for the printer on the other side! This is especially frustrating and embarrassing for those of us who use our att.net addresses for both business and personal communications.  Had I been informed of this new policy, I would not have continued to send outgoing web based emails!

Adding content to our outgoing web based emails,without informing us of such a policy (or change in policy),  is an egregious breach of trust and I would like to know where in WN's terms and services I have given permission for WN to intrude on the content of my outgoing emails (in any form)?

Finally, as I alluded in the previous paragraph, to roll out this practice without forewarning customers and obtaining our express permission, demonstrates a complete lack of respect, by WN policy makers, for WN customers!  This was a very poor decision logarithmically compounded by the underhanded and duplicitous manner in which it was apparently implemented.

As a long standing customer, I am appalled and respectfully ask WN to make things right and reconsider this policy.  I also think WN policy makers owe us a forthright explanation and apology!
--
Regards of the NW,
Kathy

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 05:14:38 GMT
From: "AT&T Ellen Norberg" <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Kathy,

Thanks for the post. Your message will be included in our daily newsgroup report to management, verbatim, of course.
--
Ellen Norberg
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 05:34:42 GMT
From: "Kathryn Simpson" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Thanks, Ellen.  Newsgroup reps have my utmost respect for being able to deal with our frustrations so politely.

It would be interesting to see the actual policy makers compelled to man the newsgroup front lines when their new policys hit the proverbial fan. :=o
--
Regards of the NW,
Kathy

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Important Worldnet info
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:53:04 GMT
From: "Hooda Gest" <@One_With.Calm>
Newsgroups: worldnet.members-forum

It isn't truly SPAM but it is a unethical not to disclose the added advertising. I have used 3rd party email boxes which add these but those are completely free so you accept a little advertisement as the "price". However, ATT's Message center is supposedly a service offered as part of the package so there should at least be some notification that the advert will be added so you can decide whether to use it or not.
--
Hooda Gest

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Important Worldnet info
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:18:32 GMT
From: Paul <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.members-forum

I agree, and it just adds to the reasons why I'll be leaving AT&Ts' ISP service next month.

Paul

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Important Worldnet info
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 22:03:12 GMT
From: "Janice" <@notworldnet.com>
Newsgroups: worldnet.members-forum

No, no, the reps count on people to complain.  The powers who decide these things need to get the "I told you so's" ;-)  Keep on keeping on complaining about it.
--
j

Here's what the ATT "chat agent" had to say:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:55:25 GMT
From: Littleguy <@nojunk.att.com>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Jay,

For what it's worth, this is what I got from one of those "chat agents"

[2002-03-31 08:44:36] WebScript message  "How may I assist you?"
[2002-03-31 08:44:36] WebScript ended
[2002-03-31 08:45:01] Customer sends message  "Why is there a tag line at the end of web based e mail now?"
[2002-03-31 08:45:56] Representative sends message bbvertv "AT&TWorldNet Service Webmail (e-mail) messages include a message appended to the end of each e-mail that is sent to increase Internet users' awareness of AT&T WorldNet Service"
[2002-03-31 08:46:36] Customer sends message  "I understand that, but I was not informed of this change.  Where was it annouced?"
[2002-03-31 08:48:07] Representative sends message bbvertv "It was not announced anywhere"
[2002-03-31 08:48:33] Customer sends message  "Why not?"
[2002-03-31 08:50:41] Representative sends message bbvertv "It is stated in the terms and conditions that changes may be made without notice in regards to the service"
[2002-03-31 08:51:27] Customer sends message  "Thank you for your time."
[2002-03-31 08:51:32] Representative sends message bbvertv "You are welcome."

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:59:54 GMT
From: AT&T Ron Crook <@att.net>
Organization: AT&T Worldnet
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Mark,

Thanks for sharing the details of your session with our chat agents.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:16:14 GMT
From: "Laura" <@obvious_hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Please add my name to the list of customers that do not like this new addition to our web mail. I agree with Jay and Kathryn that this new addtion to our web mail is very tacky. We should have at least been informed about this new change. I discovered it when a friend of mine asked me what the tag line was at the bottom of the e-mail message. She thought it very tacky too.
--
Laura

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:34:16 GMT
From: AT&T Ron Crook <@att.net>
Organization: AT&T Worldnet
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Laura,

Thanks for posting your concerns, we will forward them to our managment.

A Monstrous Twist of Marketing
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: AT&T Webtag Ads Are A Monstrous Twist of Marketing!!!!
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:27:59 GMT
From: "Pollens" <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Adding to the previous messages regarding the forced insertion of AT&T's advertising message at the end -- this is a MONSTROUS mistake and it is totally unacceptable!!!!!!!  This is especially true for people like myself who work in the area of website design and who use the AT&T Message Center for business email.

I know the AT&T's FAs have been instructed to tell us to choose another messaging service, and that is wrong also.  Why would a company force its paying customers to piggy-back this advertising tag when they don't want it? I may have to alter my use of a service I am paying for... in order to satisfy the ISP's marketing goals.  I am not convinced that AT&T is the best service available even based on that "award-winning survey" but it is still working and I plan to use it.

It is truly difficult to imagine what AT&T geniuses figured this out!  Who wants to be a part of this UNANNOUNCED practice?  It is a terrible gimmick and I am livid that I have to swallow it without recourse.

Thanks for listening :-(

aepollens

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T Webtag Ads Are A Monstrous Twist of Marketing!!!!
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:39:54 GMT
From: "AT&T Mike Stewart" <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Pollens

Thanks for your comments, they will be presented verbatim to management (along with your others which have already been forwarded) so they are aware of your displeasure with the advertising inserted into your emails sent from the message center.
--
Michael Stewart
AT&T WorldNet Service Customer Care
PWP, MSWS, E-mail & BetaSite Liaison

Escalation, media involvement
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT is using us as SPAM carriers
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:39:41 GMT
From: Jay O'Brien <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions,worldnet.help.net-abuse

I've updated my compilation of this issue to include posts on several newsgroups. Of note is the one that includes a session with an ATT chat agent who confirmed that the change was not announced anywhere, and justified that action with "It is stated in the terms and conditions that changes may be made without notice in regards to the service."

At the suggestion of other concerned ATT customers, I have removed the email addresses from the web page.

See http://obri.net/att/spam.html

Several have suggested to me that a reference to my web page be forwarded to the media. Please, folks, let's give ATT WN management at least one business day to rethink their decision to add SPAM to customer emails sent via the message center. If necessary, my next level of escalation will be to worldnetpresident@att.net, not to the media.

Does anyone know when the SPAM tag lines were added? I wasn't aware of it until Friday when I received (in error!) email from a new ATT customer sending from the message center. I then sent myself a message from the message center and the SPAM was also added to my email. It would be informative to learn when the tag line was added by ATT.

Jay O'Brien

PS.. Some have questioned the use of the word "SPAM" to describe the tag line that advertises ATT. Please see the dictionary definition of "SPAM" at the top of the web page referenced above.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT is using us as SPAM carriers
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:45:31 GMT
From: AT&T Marie Gonzalez <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions,worldnet.help.net-abuse

Good morning Jay,

Thanks, this will also be forwarded to management.
--
Marie Gonzalez
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

"spam", not "SPAM"
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT is using us as SPAM carriers
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:54:59 GMT
From: Randall Bart <@att.spam.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions,worldnet.help.net-abuse

First of all you mean "spam" not "SPAM".  "SPAM" (all caps) is a trademark for a potted meat product.

According to http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?spam, spam is "unsolicited usually commercial E-mail sent to a large number of addresses".  By this definition I agree with you.  Certainly, this is commercial content being sent via email, it's going to large numbers of addresses, and it's unsolicited.
<strawman>
AT&T could argue that they aren't sending it; they're tagged onto email sent by an AT&T users, and that other services do the same thing.  Unfortunately, the AT&T users aren't aware they are sending it (AT&T conveniently neglected to tell us).  All other services which append advertising to emails are free.  No one has reason to expect a paid service to append such messages.
</strawman>
--
RB |\  © Randall Bart

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT is using us as SPAM carriers
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:03:01 GMT
From: AT&T Marie Gonzalez <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions,worldnet.help.net-abuse

Good afternoon Randall,

Thanks for the comments, they will also be added to the management report.
--
Marie Gonzalez
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT uses us to send SPAM (was Important Worldnet info)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:09:53 GMT
From: "Kathryn Simpson" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.members-forum

"Earl Chang" <@yahoo.com> wrote in message Just to point out that there is not universal agreement... Pitching a hissy fit over ads on anything to do with web-based Email is goofy.

Even those who fell off the turnip truck yesterday are aware that the only reason for being of web-based Email is as a platform for advertising/source of advertising revenue.

If you leased a car, would you want want the dealership's advertising all over it, in a manner that you can't take it off?  If you get a loaner, for free, that is one thing.  But you are paying good money for a service, you shouldn't have to advertise for the vendor!

The argument that you pay for it, so there should be no ads might have some merit if the price of AT&T WNS increased when that service was created.  But it didn't.

You never noticed the ads on _every_ Message Center page? The ads on the home page (worldnet.att.net) can be filtered, if you  filter the ads in the Message Center you immediately get bumped out to the login page.  No ads = no Message Center.

With all that, expressing suprise or dismay that ads now appear on Email sent from the Message Center smacks of the 7/7 complaints... good entertainment, but that's about it.

I'm not saying they can't do it, btw.  I'm just saying it was completely inappropriate to start doing so without telling us.  I'm also saying it is extremely tacky! I would never have sent web based email if I had known it would be tagged.
--
Regards of the NW,
Kathy

thirty pieces of silver
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT is using us as SPAM carriers
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:39:49 GMT
From: "Roger Bryant" <@nospam.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions,worldnet.help.net-abuse

I pay the full blown $21.95 per month for AT&T speciffically to get away from ads!  If Ma Bell is going to put advertising on my outgoing email without my knowledge or consent, the I will be happy to go elsewhere (and I'd also take my AT&T digital cable and long distance).  When I last checked Earthlink had a lower price and they wouldn't hijack your personal correspondence.

Well if you're going to do your customers a disservice, do it properly.  Why stop at at AT&T service in the advertising?  What's next?  Long Distance? Digital Cable? Wireless?  If you're going to use our emails to spam, then why don't you just change your name to Monsterhut, or Broadwing, or some other spamhaus? Or better yet, if I'm going to have my email hijacked just so some Abusive Telecommunications & Telephone company can plug there product (which right know I rate at about the level of the dog #$^* that I just stepped in), then maybe I should start asking for some sort of compensation for my effort.  I mean, if I'm going to spam my friends, and therefore risk losing them, I might as well get something efforts.  On this Easter I think it would be appropriate to ask for nothing less than thirty peices of silver.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT is using us as SPAM carriers
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:42:14 GMT
From: AT&T Marie Gonzalez <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Good afternoon Roger,

Thank you for the comments, they will be included in our report to management on this issue.
--
Marie Gonzalez
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

Even AOL doesn't do this
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT uses us to send SPAM (was Important Worldnet info)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:51:38 GMT
From: "Janice" <@notworldnet.com>
Newsgroups: worldnet.members-forum

Oh but they did Earl, they raised it from $19.95 to $21.95 after the fiasco of cutting back hours.  That was another "I told you so" idea. Someday he suits will get it and listen to the AT&T reps on the line. Adding more service (access outside WN) is done to keep business, this scheme IMHO will only lose it again.   Certainly, personally from my perspective I feel that using a real mail client rather than web mail to be more desirable but if I were to access from my Mom's Compac A1-A I couldn't as it's an internet only machine.  If I were responding to a business message I'd be pretty perturbed that it was tagging an ad on the end.   As I said, there are plenty of other ISP's out there and if I had to depend on web mail when I traveled for whatever reasons I'd be pretty pissed off and would switch.  Even AOhelL doesn't do this :(
--
j

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T is spamming every message I send!
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 00:42:24 GMT
From: @nomorespam.com
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.software.mail.msg-ctr

Here, Here !  I second the motion !!!!  This is filth !!!  Why is everyone so calm !!! Hooray to Jay !!! He has my vote - Please keep it up.

Joe

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT is using us as SPAM carriers
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 03:46:00 GMT
From: David <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions,worldnet.help.net-abuse

I'd like to append my sentiments on this subject.  I suspect that most ATT users are totally unaware that this is happening- and the fact that there was no notice is indicative of a poor customer-vendor relationship.  Yes, the agreement may allow changes to be made without notice, but that doesn't mean doing so is a good idea.

I too am paying the full freight to be free of the commercialization that's taken place on almost all 'free' email sites.  I am not happy to have ATT introduce this change.

David

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT is using us as SPAM carriers
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 03:59:33 GMT
From: AT&T Marie Gonzalez <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions,worldnet.help.net-abuse

Good evening David,

We will pass your comments verbatim to management on this issue.  Thanks!

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT is using us as SPAM carriers
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 08:32:35 GMT
From: "Sleepy Turtle" <@on_a_warm_rock.org>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions,worldnet.help.net-abuse

Thanks Jay for the heads up.

I am also paying for the full at&t service, specifically to get away from ads, and now I find out that even with my spam complaints, I have been spamming for at&t.  Last time I looked, at&t was not paying me to advertise for them.  Moreover, there is nothing in the end user agreement that stipulates that I must advertise for them.  My e-mails are my personal messages, not a vehicle for at&t to stick their ugly corporate finger into.

This is yet another shady move on the part of at&t. Why am I surprised? Is anybody here but me surprised?!!

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT is using us as SPAM carriers
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:08:42 GMT
From: AT&T Ron Crook <@att.net>
Organization: AT&T Worldnet
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions,worldnet.help.net-abuse

Sleepy Turtle,

Thanks for sharing your comments regarding this, we will forward them to our management.
--
Ron Crook
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Network Liaison

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT is using us as SPAM carriers
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 14:50:12 GMT
From: "Matthew Todd" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions,worldnet.help.net-abuse

You mean to tell me that every email from the message center for 2 years has had this message on it?

This was never told to me prior to it's implementation or anywhere in the description of the service! [text re another topic snipped here]

So here is yet again another unannounced service that we get stuck with...

Please pass on my complete dis-satisfaction of this new feature AND the LACK of notice given to the subscribers regarding policy changes.

-Matt

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT is using us as SPAM carriers
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 15:00:24 GMT
From: AT&T Dorothy Pollock <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Matthew,

No, every email from the message center for 2 years has not had this message on it.  [text re another topic snipped here]

Your comments are noted and will be shared with management in our newsgroup report.
--
DorothyM.Pollock
AT&T WorldNet Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

same as USPS opening mail and inserting an ad before delivery
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: AT&T SPAM
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 15:39:35 GMT
From: "Frederick Casey" <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.software.mail.msg-ctr

I am sending this message to every one on my E-mail list. "You no doubt have noticed the spam for AT&T service being attached to the bottom of my message. I just snapped to this crap today. I have fired off a few E-mails to them violently bitching about this. Their replies are just a run-around. So, ignore their ads and never ever sign up for Worldnet. I consider this the same as the USPS opening my mail and inserting an ad for their service into my mail before they deliver it. How can they get away with this invasion of my E-mail privacy?

Plus, they have notified me that my service fee for their 7/7 plan is going up from seven dollars a month to fourteen and change. I am really angry and am now looking for another service provider.

Mike Casey
Pasadena

Just implemented this weekend
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T SPAM
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 17:10:45 GMT
From: "FA Hawk" <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Worldnet
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.software.mail.msg-ctr

Hi Mike

All messages sent from the Web based mail now include that tag-line at the end.  This was just implemented this weekend.  Note that this will not appear with mail programs such as outlook, netscape or agent; just when the web based mail is used.

If you object to this (and I can understand if you do) you should post in news:worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions since there is nothing the FA's in this group can do about it.
--
FA Hawk
AT&T WorldNet Service Forum Assistant

Tech support says violation of AT&T's policy on ads
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: help!  worldnet just started inserting ads into my email :(
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 17:35:09 GMT
From: Joe Seibert <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Within the past two days, the following 3-line tag line started showing up in emails I composed and sent using the netmail.att.net webmail access service:
------------------------------------------------
Get the award winning ISP, AT&T WorldNet Service
http://download.att.net/webtag

I have no taglines enabled in my web email service.  A call to a Worldnet technical support technician just now confirmed this.  I transmitted a test email to myself, then he viewed it and confirmed that the ad was being inserted at the end of the email.  He talked with others there at the support center and said this was a violation of AT&T Worldnet's policy on ads.  He did not know why this just started happening and recommended I check with the news forums to see if anyone else noticed this problem.

The ad shows up regardless of connection type (either dialup or access over the web) when the web email interface is used to compose and transmit an email.

Switching computers does not get rid of the ads (I thought maybe something had gotten into my Internet Explorer 5.5 on one computer...)

The ad does NOT show up if I use my own email software via dialup (Agent 1.8) to compose and transmit an email.

The ad did NOT appear in webmail-generated email on March 28. My next webmail-generated email of March 31 showed the ad.

I am paying for the unlimited service plan and do not appreciate ads being inserted into my emails without my permission or control.  As the Worldnet tech support guy said:  "It is not our policy to do this...it doesn't look professional when sending business email..."

I agree!  Please stop this!

Sincerely,
Joe Seibert

Tech support was in error
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: help!  worldnet just started inserting ads into my email :(
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:32:13 GMT
From: "AT&T Mike Stewart" <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.beta.email

Joe

Sorry about the confusion after you called the tech support line, they were in error and I will pass on the information to those in charge of that area so that future callers will not be misled too. What  you are seeing is a new addition to the Message Center called a tagline.  AT&T WorldNet Service WebMail (e-mail) messages includes a message appended to the end of each e-mail that is sent to increase Internet users awareness of AT&T WorldNet Service.  The line that is appended is a simple phrase that contains an AT&T WorldNet  message and web site address for those interested in information on AT&T WorldNet Service.

I will pass on your disatisfaction with this addition to the Message Center to management.
--
Michael Stewart
AT&T WorldNet Service Customer Care
PWP, MSWS, E-mail & BetaSite Liaison

Violation of trust and honor
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: help!  worldnet just started inserting ads into my email :(
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 17:58:48 GMT
From: Joe Seibert <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Thank you!  Any help on this issue will be appreciated.

Worldnet has worked well for me for the past several years.  I'd hate to lose the service over an issue like this, but it's a significant violation of trust and honor that I'm saddened to see happen.

Sincerely,
Joe Seibert

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Hi Noon
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:01:52 GMT
From: Littleguy <@nojunk.att.com>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

O.K., It's almost 3pm back there.  Should be plenty of time for Mr. Stewart to get us some basic scoop on what's going on with the email tags.

Additionally, By chance Mike does not have any information, is it asking to much to get Ed to chime in?
--
Littleguy

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Hi Noon
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:08:40 GMT
From: AT&T Nick Trifonoff <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Mark,

The issue is currently under review by management. I do not know if there will be a definite decision made on the issue today. I am not certain I understand what you mean by scoop. The tag line exists at this time. Management is currently reviewing the decision to implement it.
--
Nick Trifonoff
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Hi Noon
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:20:39 GMT
From: Littleguy <@nojunk.att.com>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

On Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:08:40 GMT, AT&T Nick Trifonoff wrote:

> the issue is currently under review by management.
I'm glad to hear this.

>I do not know if there will be a definite decision made on the issue today.
I'm pretty certain nobody is expecting a final decision, today.

>I am not certain I understand what you mean by scoop.
My definition of scoop given these circumstances would include things such as:
-What if any service is available to members to get away from the tags.
-Why were the paying members not even notified of this change.
-Maybe a little bit of information as to what driving force is behind this.

>The tag line exists at this time.
This is obvious.

>Management is currently reviewing the decision to implement it.
Making major decisions like this "past tense" is just not good business ethics if you ask me.

I think a "round table" should be in order here (this is where more than 1 person gives his/or input on an idea)
--
Littleguy

hopes for prompt decision
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Hi Noon
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:43:41 GMT
From: AT&T Nick Trifonoff <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Mark,

>On Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:20:39 GMT, Littleguy wrote:

>I'm pretty certain nobody is expecting a final decision, today.
Thanks, hopefully a decision will be reach promptly.

>What if any service is available to members to get away from the tags.
Use a True POP3 email client

>Why were the paying members not even notified of this change.
There is no real answer for this, it was implemented in accordance with the Terms and conditions.

>Maybe a little bit of information as to what driving force is behind this.
The motivation is to make more people aware Worldnet Service exists.

>Making major decisions like this "past tense" is just not good business ethics if you ask me.
We will make certain management is aware of your thoughts.

>I think a "round table" should be in order here (this is where more than 1 person gives his/or input on an idea)
Noted.
--
Nick Trifonoff
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Hi Noon
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 23:57:18 GMT
From: Littleguy <@nojunk.att.com>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

On Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:43:41 GMT, AT&T Nick Trifonoff wrote:

>Use a True POP3 email client
Why does everybody keep saying this.  I'm going to guess that there are a large number of people that do use a POP3 email client.

It's when you are out of town, away on business, on vacation, visiting grandma, etc. etc. etc. that you need to use web base.

I'm pretty sure that most hotels are not going to let you use there's (feel free to give me one of your hand me down laptops insert here)

>There is no real answer for this, it was implemented in accordance with the Terms and conditions.
Yes, Nick, There is an answer.  I don't expect you or the newsgroup team to have one, but I sure as heck would be hunting it down if it were me..

>The motivation is to make more people aware Worldnet Service exists.
There meeting there goal here alright.  Only problem is that it compares to (insert church of choice here) knocking on your door for donations. <Bad anology but I couldn't come up with anything else at the moment>
--
Littleguy

Today tag line, tomorrow contents
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Hi Noon
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 00:14:19 GMT
From: Mritunjay Sinha <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

AT&T FAs,
Don't keep on insisting that tag was implemented  "in accordance with the Terms and conditions".

It is very obvious that AT&T was trying to get some free ads.  Today AT&T adding tag line and tomorrow AT&T can modify my e-mail contents.  What's the difference between a free hotmail and AT&T?

I am a very happy AT&T worldnet customer and would like to keep this as far as possible  I love msg. center but this attitude may force me to change my mind.  I was always notified for any changes made but for this. Why?

Thanks
-Jay

beating the drum
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Hi Noon
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 00:17:31 GMT
From: AT&T Nick Trifonoff <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

I am sorry, you asked how to get away from the tags. I gave the only way to do so at this time.

Mark, I am on your side on this issue. It does exist, the only answer to the question you asked I offered. The only way to not get the tag appended right now is to use a client application. I am not saying that is right or wrong, it is simply the only way right now.

No, there is not an answer beyond what I stated. That is not what you want to hear, but it is fact. We will make certain management is aware you are not pleased that prior notification of this addition to the message center was not publicized clearly.

I won't agree or disagree. As I said, I happen to be a customer advocate on this issue. We are beating the drum.
--
Nick Trifonoff
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

FA's are understood
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Hi Noon
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 00:23:02 GMT
From: Littleguy <@nojunk.att.com>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

On Tue, 02 Apr 2002 00:17:31 GMT, AT&T Nick Trifonoff wrote:

>Mark, I am on your side on this issue.
Nick,  I know you are.  I'm talking to the person that reads this once it's left your hands, not you.

>We are beating the drum.
Understood.
--
Littleguy

Newsgroups a reason to stick around
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Hi Noon
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 02:22:12 GMT
From: lordofthesquirrels <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

AT&T Nick Trifonoff wrote:
>As I said, I happen to be a customer advocate on this issue. We are beating the drum.

Touché for sticking your neck out, Nick.  The old cliché about "customer no-service" does not apply to these newsgroups.  It's one of the reasons that some of us stick around.

problem affecting "some" customers?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T ad on sig line
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 01:05:04 GMT
From: Wendy Hope Riedel <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.mail-server

I discovered the same tagline on my outgoing emails, sent from web-based email this weekend and today. I was unable to get to the newsgroup via the web-based interface (another inexplicable problem),  so I tried the online chat feature. The person who responded there said that this was a problem affecting "some" customers (how did we get selected for this prize, I wonder?) and that it would have to be referred to the email server "programmer types" for resolution.

That is a ridiculous response. Taglines do not get added to messages by some random process that programmers have to diagnose. Programmers should not be allowed to add content to my email messages under any circumstances!!! They should not be allowed to add unannounced features to your service that will add content to my email messages. Why is there no Service Bulletin describing the problem or announcing a change in AT&T policy? Personally, I use a PAID FOR service because, among other reasons, I did not want the adlines that free email services seem to add to their customers' mail. It is not acceptable -- having touted the availability of email via your web-based interface -- to tell me that I have to use a POP3 client to avoid your advertising in my messages.

Please convey to your management that this is one more way to antagonize your customers.

Wendy

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AT&T ad on sig line
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 01:09:22 GMT
From: "AT&T Ellen Norberg" <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.mail-server

Wendy,

Thank you for taking the time to voice your concerns, we appreciate it and will be sure your comments regarding the Message Center 'tag lines' are seen by management, verbatim.
--
Ellen Norberg
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

HIJACKING MY EMAIL
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: STOP HIJACKING MY EMAIL
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 01:15:17 GMT
From: "Paul McCloskey" <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

PLEASE STOP USING MY PRIVATE EMAIL TO ADVERTISE. I PAY OVER 2O DOLLARS A MONTH FOR THIS SERVICE AND FOR THAT I EXPECT PRIVATE PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATIONS.

I USE THIS EMAIL FOR BUSINESS PURPOSES AND DO NOT WANT AT&T CORRUPTING MY MESSAGES WITH ITS CHEAP ADVERTISING.

THIS IS INEFFECTIVE, CHEAP, CORRUPT ADVERTISING.

I WOULD EXPECT YOU TO CUT MY FEE TO PRACTICALLY NOTHING IF I AM GOING TO SUBSIDIZE YOUR ADVERTISING COSTS BY LOCATING CUSTOMERS FOR YOU.

WHAT'S MORE THERE WAS NO WARNING TO CUSTOMERS BEFORE YOU STARTED USING MY EMAIL AS SPAM. THAT IS CHEAP AND UNPROFESSIONAL.

I AM TAKING IMMEDIATE STEPS TO SEEK AN ALTERNATIVE PROVIDER.

THIS TOTALLY DISGUSTS ME.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: STOP HIJACKING MY EMAIL
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 01:20:03 GMT
From: AT&T Nick Trifonoff <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Paul,

Thanks for taking the time to stop in and share your viewpoint with us. We will make certain management is aware of it.
--
Nick Trifonoff
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

Remove the ads or lose customers
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Adding my voice to the cacophany against advertising
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 02:50:26 GMT
From: "janet britton" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

It's sneaky that it was suddenly added.

It's something that's expected of free email servers, NOT of ones I pay $15/month for. If I want ads on my email, I will go with a FREE EMAIL service. Then what do I need this ISP for? There are lots and lots of ISPs out there to choose from...$15 for what should be free is ridiculous.

Please, remove the ads or lose customers!

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Adding my voice to the cacophany against advertising
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 02:52:50 GMT
From: "AT&T Ellen Norberg" <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Janet,

Thank you for taking the time to voice your feelings regarding the Message Center tag line, we appreciate it and will be sure management sees your comments.
--
Ellen Norberg
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

Treat us like customers, not like shills
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Yet Another Complaint
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 04:53:46 GMT
From: John Pfeifer <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

I see there has been quite a "cacophony" (to quote a previous poster) about the addition of the tagline to web-mail. Let me add my voice to the growing chorus, so that management can see that they've managed to tick off one more person.

I have multiple problems with the addition of the tagline. First, it was unannounced. Making changes to the content of my mail is bad enough; doing it without TELLing me you're going to do it is unethical at least and annoying in the extreme.

Second, paying members are already paying you for the service, they shouldn't have to do your advertising for you. The disingenuous phrase used in the beta mail newsgroup about what was being done [AT&T WorldNet Service WebMail (e-mail) messages includes a message appended to the end of each e-mail that is sent to increase Internet users awareness of AT&T WorldNet Service] is an insult. It's an ad, pure and simple. I don't pay you to include ads in my personal mail. If I want my friends to be "aware" of AT&T Worldnet Service, I'll tell them about it.

Third, the ad is going to have exactly the opposite of the intended effect. I for one am going to mention to anybody that asks that AT&T Worldnet has started going the way of AOL (you'll like the way we provide the service because we SAY you'll like it).

To AT&T management: Get rid of the unwanted ads. Don't alienate your subscribers by springing stuff on them without telling them. Don't point to some obscure service agreement online that changed and say "you should have reviewed the 373,000 lines of fine print to find what we changed." Treat us like customers, not like shills.

Thank you.

John Pfeifer

cheesy advertising slogan looks unprofessional
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Yet Another Complaint
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 08:20:01 GMT
From: @bullwinkle.local (Carl Tucker)
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

And another.  I don't use webmail already, if I can help it, because it's a nuisance.  However, now I'll be sure not to EVER use it, even if I'm tempted.

You cannot send email related to work with a cheesy advertising slogan on the bottom.  It looks unprofessional.  Fortunately, I have shell accounts at other providers who don't feel the need to embarass me.
--
 Carl Tucker

not free for AT&T
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Cost of AT&T tagline advertising spam
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 11:54:39 GMT
From: Joe Seibert <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

I submit the following for your consideration:

The email insert advertising is not free for AT&T.

It will cost AT&T:

1. $21.95/month--loss of Worldnet customer.
2. $25-$60/month--loss of AT&T long distance customer.
3. $30/month--lost of AT&T cell phone customer.
4. $???--loss of sales of AT&T products (phones, calling cards)
5. $???--loss of good will due to negative word-of-mouth about this.

I respectfully request you reconsider this practice and either discontinue it or make it an opt-in option (good suggestion) for those interested in carrying your advertising.

Thank you.
Sincerely,
Joe Seibert

tag lines may cause mail to be deleted
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: AT&T Spam-tag line.....
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 19:27:53 GMT
From: "D. Stussy" <@bde-arc.ampr.org>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Did management consider that some (non AT&T) mail servers may actually search e-mail messages for advertising tag lines and use their presence as a spam indicator - and thus delete the message?

By blindly turning this on, it's possible that you have effectively killed some outbound e-mail for your customers.....

may be for subsizized members
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Message Center Tag Line
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 20:28:00 GMT
From: "Albert Schutz" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

I would like to add my displeasure to the growing list of WN members about the web based email tag line for full freight members.

However, it should be remembered that i495 and 7/7 members also use the the message center, and in their case adding the tag line would seem to be in line with the terms of service for those types of accounts, with proper notice to said members of course.

Since WN has usually been sensitive to the privacy and security concerns of all members, I tend to think that this was caused by some sort of bug in the implementation of the tag. In other words, it wouldn't be added to full freight members mail no matter where it originated, therefore no need to notify them about it. The fact that it *isn't* added to mail client sourced messages tends to support this hypothesis, and as far as I can tell this holds for "subsidized" members as well.

autocratic intrusion unacceptable
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Webtags on Message Center e-mail
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 03:43:40 GMT
From: mervyn <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.software.mail.msg-ctr

It appears that Worldnet has started to automatically attach this webtag to all mails composed and sent from the Message Center website:
---------------------------------------
Get the award winning ISP, AT&T WorldNet Service
http://download.att.net/webtag

Does anyone know if there's a way to get rid of this intrusion?  I often use Message Center to send business correspondence, and this tag is not something I want business contacts to see (or friends for that matter).

It is understandable for free webmail services to use these tags, but to pay for Worldnet service and have no say in what gets tacked onto my messages is unacceptable.

In the five years I have been a Worldnet member, they have never been this autocratic, but if there is no way to get rid of this tag, I will have to consider changing my service.

Thanks,
Mervyn

prepared statement received from AT&T
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Webtags on Message Center e-mail
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 04:48:15 GMT
From: "David J. Cavuto" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.software.mail.msg-ctr

I'm so glad someone else noticed.  I've been back and forth with AT&T customer support since monday morning trying to convince them that this intrusion into my outbound email was absolutely intolerable.

I can deal with other, free, services (like yahoo or hotmail) supplementing their revenue by advertising, but _this_ is too much. I PAY for worldnet. In fact, since I acquired my cable modem, the ONLY reason I use worldnet is for WebMail. I could deal with a fee increase better than this draconian attempt to make me part of AT&T's marketing machine.

Let the marketing folks know by either emailing 'em at: https://mailus.help.att.net or opening a trouble ticket on the phone at: 1-800-400-1447

You could also do what they suggest and send a postal mail to:

AT&T WorldNet Service
Attn: Customer Relations Manager
P.O. Box 1923
Morristown, NJ 07962

Following is the email I got back from the customer service folks (but only after pestering them by sending several emails, including to hostmaster and postmaster@att.net).

-cavuto

--- start of message ---

AT&T has asked be to include this prepared statement:

"AT&T WorldNet Service Webmail (e-mail) messages include a message appended to the end of each e-mail that is sent to increase Internet users' awareness of AT&T WorldNet Service. The line that is appended is a simple phrase that contains an AT&T WorldNet message and Web site address for those interested in information on AT&T WorldNet Service."

This e-mail technical support and its sister billing support  in another area have no method or way of removing the tagline, or contacting the e-mail developers of the message center to modify this.

I am sorry if you feel this is not acceptable. If you have further feedback about this specific issue, you may go to:  http://webmail.att.net/wm/feedback.html  I recommend either the suggestion box or the Newsgroups.

If you wish to make a complaint about how AT&T WorldNet runs its marketing, you may send a letter to this postal mailing address:

AT&T WorldNet Service
Attn: Customer Relations Manager
P.O. Box 1923
Morristown, NJ 07962

Finally, if you so wish to, you may use this link for requests to cancel your  account:  https://memberservices.att.net/msws/MSAuth?url=%2Fmsws%2FCloseAccount  (You must enter your e-mail ID and password to access this area)

I am sorry if this was not the resolution you wished, but one of these options  will allow you to request this change, or end the problem.

Thank you for contacting AT&T WorldNet Customer Care.

If you need further assistance, please visit our AT&T WorldNet Service Care Site at: http://help.att.net

SMTP is next - downgrade CR Mag's rating of AT&T
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Why AT&T is spamming my messages
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 05:04:54 GMT
From: "David J. Cavuto" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Gage,

Your comment that the messages do not appear in POP3 mailers only serves to highlight the absurdity of this new policy.

If AT&T really is intending to use its subscribers to advertise, its only a matter of time before the mail transfer agents (sendmail or whatever you use) are configured to add that tagline as well.

It is obvious that it was simply easier to add it to the application that runs the MessageCenter, as a first step, from a programming point of view. But if this is really the policy, the SMTP/POP3 MTAs will follow soon.

I can say that I, for one, will NO LONGER recommend Worldnet as an ISP to my friends and colleagues, if this continues. I also intend to write Consumer Reports magazine, which rated WorldNet as the #1 ISP, to see if this policy would downgrade their rating.

I highly recommend to anyone who experiences this issue to voice their opinion here, and directly to any technical support forums you can reach. The more dissention that is heard by Worldnet management, the more likely that this policy will reversed.

Regards,
-David

Yahoogroups forum on AT&T issues
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Yahoogroups forum - webtag complaints etc.
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 05:13:47 GMT
From: "David J. Cavuto" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

All,

If anyone is interested, I have discovered that there are at least two yahoogroups forum for AT&T issues, not moderated by AT&T:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ATT/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/attsucks/

-david

inserted without my consent
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Webtag text comparison
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 05:22:30 GMT
From: "J. Douglas Tsosie" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

I used to fly an airline that advertised the "Award" they won on the side of their airplanes. Last I heard, they were the first one running to the gov't lately saying they were facing bankruptcy. My guess is they focused more on that award than on customer service. I don't fly them any more because of their lousy service.

If I am going to send mail from the web, I'll insert my own signature line, "Anything below this line was inserted without my consent."

I was more interested in recommending AT&T to friends when they were giving away free airline tickets. I'm glad I didn't.

How do I have this removed?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: STOP HIJACKING MY EMAIL
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 17:03:22 GMT
From: Balcom <@att.net
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

I agree!

Why is there now an ATT advertisement at the end of the emails I send out?  This looks very cheap,like I'm using a free service for my business correspondence.  And as you know your service is NOT free!!!

If I wanted to use Yahoo, I would have.

How do I have this removed from my emails?

there is no manual removal that can be done
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: STOP HIJACKING MY EMAIL
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 17:15:13 GMT
From: AT&T Dorothy Pollock <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Balcom,
If you use the Message Center it is automatically there and there is no manual removal that can be done.
If you use a POP3 client such as Outlook Express, Eudora etc the tagline is not there..
Concerns posted here about this have been forwarded to management and yours will be included as well.
--
DorothyM.Pollock
AT&T WorldNet Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

tagline suggestion
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Webtag text comparison
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 20:16:38 GMT
From: wc <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

How would this be for my tagline?

"Anything that appears below this line was added without my permission or knowledge.  I suggest and recommend my corespondents not patronize in any manner, the company or firm that has added their advertising to my email, without my consent."

sleazy marketing people
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: ATT now puts advertisement in your signature
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 20:53:24 GMT
From: Peter <@not.reply>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.mail-server

ATT has now started putting little advertisements in the signatures of any emails sent from the netmail web page.  It appears that ATT began doing this without notification on 1 April 2002.  The signatures are like what you would see in hotmail or yahoo emails and according to the chat tech help:

------------------
[2002-04-03 14:56:05] Representative sends message bbmaezc "I apologize for any inconvenience, AT&T WorldNet Service Webmail (e-mail) messages include a message appended to the end of each e-mail that is sent to increase Internet users' awareness of AT&T WorldNet Service"

[2002-04-03 14:56:30] Representative sends message bbmaezc "The line that is appended is a simple phrase that contains an AT&T WorldNet message and Web site address for those interested in information on AT&T WorldNet Service and it something that we just recently implemented"
------------------

This is just another example of sleazy marketing people pushing back the bounds of civility.  I have been an ATT customer for a decade or more, but am now going to switch to a less unethical company - or at least one with fewer jerks.

The signature that they add looks like this (similar to what you see on hotmail or yahoo which cost just as much, no, wait, those are free in exchange for the advertising...  hmmmm):

------------------------------------------------
Get the award winning ISP, AT&T WorldNet Service
http://download.att.net/webtag

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT now puts advertisement in your signature
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 20:57:15 GMT
From: AT&T Dorothy Pollock <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.mail-server

Peter,
Your displeasure with the tagline is noted and will be communicated to management in our newsgroup report.
--
DorothyM.Pollock
AT&T WorldNet Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

Does it take a genius
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT now puts advertisement in your signature
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 21:18:58 GMT
From: Peter <@not.reply>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.mail-server

Hi Dorothy,

It seems that ATT was able to start adding this sleaze to the bottom of the emails without too much trouble, so how about stopping it.

Although kindly worded, your response is exactly the type of corporate run-around that ATT used to pride itself on NOT having.  You will report to someone, who will report to someone, and then maybe in the distant future someone might have the decency to quit being so sleazy!

Does it take a genius to know that adding advertisements to people's emails is not something that we want?  Is that so difficult?  Just stop it!

-Peter

we know customers are very upset
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT now puts advertisement in your signature
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 21:31:15 GMT
From: AT&T Dorothy Pollock <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.mail-server

Peter,
Part of our jobs here as newsgroup agents is to compile a report of customer posts every 24 hrs and forward it to management. We pass on what gets posted in the groups. I cannot say that part any other way and I apologize if it appears to be corporate speak.
We know customers are very upset and we are doing our best to get that message to the people who need to know that.
Thank you again for posting.
--
DorothyM.Pollock
AT&T WorldNet Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

can I put an ad for my company on their email
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT now puts advertisement in your signature
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 22:04:24 GMT
From: Peter <@not.reply>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.mail-server

Hi Dorothy,

Sorry to be all over you and the other front-end staff, but then that is the job that you agreed to take.  You represent ATT even when ATT decides to do totally idiotic things.  On the other hand, these ads on my email are NOT something that I agreed to take....

The folks who need to know about our displeasure surely anticipated it.  Are they morons?  Can I put an ad for MY company on every email that THEY send? And charge them for it?  What if I want to do this in order to raise the profile of my company?  Does that make it OK?  Of course not.

Call them up now - get 'em out of bed (or off the golf course)!  I have opted out of every type of ATT advertisement and marketing for years - and now because it is email and relatively hidden ATT feels that this is OK? And we have no opportunity to opt out?  Why was this change not announced? Now I have had my service unethically compromised and I have already paid for it.  That does not bode well for ATT....

Thanks,
-Peter

another tag line suggestion
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT now using you for advertising!
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 23:28:30 GMT
From: "Hooda Gest" <@One_With.Calm>
Newsgroups: worldnet.members-forum

Just a suggestion to those of you using webmail and are upset by the ad-tag by Worldnet...

Create a "signature" that states something along the lines of:

"The following tag was put in place by Worldnet without my permission, take this into consideration when choosing a new ISP"

Essentially nullifying their advertising trick. If enough people do this, the ads will stop because they will be counter-productive.
--
Hooda Gest
"In a New York minute, everything can change..."

post to news.admin.net-abuse.email and responses
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: AT&T/Worldnet Using Members to *Advertise*
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 03:26:07 GMT
From: "Aquila" <@NOSPAMatt.net>
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.email

Hello nanae :)   [news.admin.net-abuse.email]

Just thought I would post this little bit of news that has effected *Many* AT&T/WorldNet users.

It seems that AT&T/WorldNet implemented a program that *inserts* a Tag Line at the bottom of every email sent from their *Message Center* that reads as follows:

------------------------------------------------
Get the award winning ISP, AT&T WorldNet Service
http://download.att.net/webtag "

Keep in mind that the message center is only accessible by *Paying* subscribers. There is *No* sign of this *Tag* when a member sends email, and this was implemented without notice to *Any* member.

A diligent customer has been documenting the threads that are behind the WorldNet newsgroup firewall, and most of the discussions are available here: http://obri.net/att/spam.html

I was just wondering what nanae thought of this practice?

Cheers,
Aquila

 
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 05:03:01 GMT
From: Paul L <@publicist.com>

It is spam that they are making their paying customers send.

Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 09:54:14 GMT

"It is stated in the terms and conditions that changes may be made without notice in regards to the service"

That's AT&T's response, huh.

I suggest adding the following to your .sig and getting as many other Worldnet customers as you can to do the same.

"Please excuse the spam which follows this signature. It will be a temporary blemish on some of my emails until either AT&T can be made to understand how sleazy this makes them look or until I can find an internet service provider and long distance carrier who respects their customers' communications. Meanwhile you can view the message below as a reminder not to do business with AT&T."

joemoore

Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 03:52:13 GMT

Personally, I think it's spam, many times worse because they are using their own paying customers to send it.

Steven

Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 23:03:14 -0600
From: "Clifton T. Sharp Jr." <@clifto.com>

Completely unacceptable.

Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 03:56:14 -0500
From: "Jay Stuler" <@no.thanks>

It's slimey spam

Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 11:53:23 GMT
From: @ubeblock.psr.com.invalid (Winston Edmond)

Their system, their rules, but customers also have the right to complain, particularly if they're sending secure, signed, encrypted, or encoded mail and AT&T's appending of that tag destroys the validity of the message or disrupts the communication.  :-)

Date: 04 Apr 2002 12:47:07 GMT
From: @aol.com (Automacro)

It's essentially two emails - one presumably solicited and the other, riding it like a virus / worm, presumably unsolicited.

Doesn't matter if it comes in a bag or comes in a box, comes by itself or piggybacked on a legitimate message: UCE is spam.
- otto

Take the ad off.

I can see something free like yahoo email adding a(an?) ad on the sig line but I pay for my AT&T email.

My advertisement for AT&T is the "att.net" at the end of my email address.  Also I have been telling people that I was pleased with my AT&T ISP.  If a ad continues to be added to the end of my email, I will tell people I am DISPLEASED with my AT&T ISP.

Here is an instance where it causes a problem.

I wanted to subscribe to a list.  The only thing in the body of the email was supposed to be   subscribe xxxxxx . Not  subscribe xxxxxx and a AT&T ad.

This ad idea is going to backfire. Enough people have complained already. The ad is not going to help you gain users, you are going to lose users.

any feedback from management?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Any feedback from management?
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:03:57 GMT
From: Peter <@not.reply>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Just wondering if the ATT management has given any feedback on all the comments about the unwelcomed advertising.

no
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Any feedback from management?
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:05:37 GMT
From: AT&T Marie Gonzalez <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Good morning Peter,
We have not received any information on the status of this issue.
--
Marie Gonzalez
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

like ATM fees
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Another vote against email tags
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:28:37 GMT
From: "Marc Bernstein" <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

I am aware that there are some lower class services like Yahoo that do this. But if every ISP gets in on the game pretty soon it will be like ATM fees.Everyone gets used everywhere. Not to mention all that wasted bandwidth.
--
Marc Bernstein

signboard around your neck
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ATT is using us as SPAM carriers
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 21:26:59 GMT
From: "D.G. Devin" <@worldnet.att.invalid>
Organization: AT&T Worldnet
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.net-abuse

Revolting, and corporations wonder why consumers don't trust them, "Oh, but we have the right to change the rules anytime we like, so now you have to wear a signboard around your neck with our advertising whenever you leave your home."

This is *exactly* the kind of thing that will motivate me to look for another ISP, and I'm one of those consumers with a lot of brand loyalty.

violating the spirit and intent of email
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: ATT Ad Tags
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 01:02:32 GMT
From: "Carl Koppenhauer" <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.mail-server

I want to add my voice to the growing volume against the practice of adding tags to e-mail messages.

I feel that it is changing the original e-mail message and is violating the intent and sprit of e-mail. The US Postal service does not open my mail and add anything to my messages why should AT&T? Yes, they cancel the stamp and use messages on the stamp and cancellation to further the USPS but they do not change my message inside. Why should AT&T be any different? Do I have to complain to my senator/representative to stop the practice? I intend to do so if the practice is not stopped.

Carl Koppenhauer

it has been a week now
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: So what about this unwelcomed advertising?
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 16:51:07 GMT
From: Peter <@not.reply>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

So it has been a week now.  You have been adding your advertising to my emails without any overt authorization from me to do so.  You are surely not receiving any positive input from your paying customers.

When does this corporate intrusion into my email end?! Based on my experience with ATT recently, the answer is likely either:

A) We have not heard back from management on this issue
-or-
B) Thank you for your comment, we will pass this along to management.

Just choose a letter if you have nothing substantive to say.....

don't put words ... in my email
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Message Center tagline spam.  (Add my comments to the pile.)
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 01:31:50 GMT
From: "Michael Stewart" <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

[Note to FA's and front-line customer support people.  I know you don't make the decisions, you just do what you can to clean up the mess.  Please forward this to the appropriate individuals.  Thank you.]

I just noticed that you are now appending an advertisement to all outgoing email I send from your web-based Message Center.  You do not seem to realize that doing this without my knowledge and consent is outrageous, offensive, and unacceptable.  Until this practice is discontinued, the ability to send email from Message Center is useless to me and therefore I will not be emailing any free advertisements for you either way.  The net result of modifying the body of my email messages is to garner the ill will of someone who has been a good customer for a number of years, and to do so without deriving any benefit from it.  It is a classic "lose-lose situation" for both of us.

I am currently paying for your "unlimited" rate plan (i.e. already paying extra not to be bothered with banner ads and time limits).  I strongly resent the way you unilaterally decided to adopt the arrogant and obnoxious practice of modifying the contents of email messages to include your self-serving advertisements without the sender's knowledge or permission. If you want free advertising from me, you will have to earn the privilege of traditional word-of-mouth advertisement by earning my respect.  Unilaterally appending whatever you want to my email messages against my will and without my knowledge (and sneaking the change in without so much as informing me when it was going into effect) is not the way to accomplish this.  In fact, as you can probably tell from the messages you have already received from other customers like me, it has the opposite effect.  I used to consider AT&T a reputable company that would not participate in questionable business practices, but this matter (and your lack of response to it so far) makes me question whether my favorable opinion is justified.

So, you're telling me that if I'm sending an email to a colleague or a business contact, I'm really not supposed to mind the addition of your advertising copy, no matter how offensive its method of inclusion, or how unprofessional-looking it makes my message appear?  What is next?  Are you going to start altering messages sent from an email client (such as Eudora, Outlook, etc.) to append the same kind of advertisement?  Hey, why not throw in a banner ad while you're at it!  That way you could boost your advertising revenue by selling the space for annoying "pop-under" ads from the usual assortment of sleazy websites!

Your marketing department apparently wants free advertising at the customer's expense, and is arrogant and obnoxious enough not to care what the customer thinks about it.   Your management team should be doing "sanity checks" on marketing strategies such as this, but someone clearly dropped the ball this time.  As a result, management failed to counterbalance marketing pressures against customer expectations and opinions.  (Or perhaps management doesn't care what customers think unless we complain loudly and threaten to take our business to a competitor.  The end result tends to be the same either way.)

Naturally the poor front-line customer support people - lacking any authority to change bad decisions - have to take all the heat.  [I guess that's why they pay you support guys "the big bucks", right?]

I have a few questions for you, none of which are rhetorical:

1. What led you to believe that I would be willing to send your advertisement to my friends, colleagues, and business contacts as if I had intentionally included it as part of my signature file?  (It is most certainly not acceptable to me, especially in the context of business and professional message traffic.)
2. Why do you think it is acceptable business practice to modify the body of your customers' outgoing email messages without their knowledge or consent?  This is clearly outrageous!
3. Why didn't you at least inform me when you made this change so I would know to avoid using the Message Center?  The user doesn't see the advertisement when composing a message, and as far as I can tell there is no way to suppress it, so it would be nearly impossible to avoid sending the advertisement in complete ignorance.  If a friend had not brought this to my attention, I might have sent an important message to a business contact with a copy of your hokey little ad attached.  As an IT professional, I would consider this a failure on my part to maintain a professional appearance. (My email address might as well be "CluelessNewbie179@aol.com".  Both would leave the same impression: "I thought this guy was an IT pro.  Can't he afford better internet service, or is it that he doesn't know any better?")
4. Who within your organization is responsible for making the decision?  (I want to complain to - and possibly about - someone in your management hierarchy rather than [or at least "in addition to"] beating up the customer support people and FA's.)
5. Last but not least, what has to happen to make this stop?  If it doesn't stop, you have, in effect, unilaterally decided to make Message Center useless to me for sending email, and cost yourself some customer good will in the bargain.  You will get less "free" advertising than you expect, and it will end up costing you more than it's worth.  (If you're thinking, "you can't spend 'good will'," I assure you that you can - it is the only currency with which you can buy effective word-of-mouth advertising.)

You have too many competitors to allow yourself to implement bad business practices.  If you provide a service that I truly appreciate, maybe I will include meaningful word-of-mouth advertising in my email (as I see fit) without being forced or coerced.  Meanwhile, don't put words in my mouth - OR IN MY EMAIL!

Sincerely,
   Michael Stewart
------------------------------------------------
At AT&T WorldNet, "ISP" apparently stands for "Insolent Self-Promoter"! http://www.isps.com/

this sums it up in a nutshell
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Message Center tagline spam.  (Add my comments to the pile.)
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 03:04:01 GMT
From: "Albert Schutz" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Michael,

First, let me thank for your elegant and well conceived letter to AT&T management with regards to the Message Center "idea". I can now throw the one I was working on as a follow-up to the "quicky" I fired off earlier this week away! The only criticism I have is that you might have included a C & C about the last part of Question 6 (I'm glad the first C wasn't on my lap and I just finished cleaning up the second C). <g>

To the ATT folks, what more needs to be said? This sums it up in a nutshell.

Albert Schutz

add my name in agreement
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Message Center tagline spam.  (Add my comments to the pile.)
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 08:09:01 GMT
From: "Robert" <@NOSPAMHEREatt.net>
Organization: Interested Observer
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

WOW! Why try to improve on this? Please add my name in agreement.

Robert Gore

worldnet has decided not to explain
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Disappointment
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 02:02:39 GMT
From: Littleguy <@nojunk.att.com>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Please let the record be clear that I am not happy at all that this whole week has gone by and Worldnet has decided not to explain themselves in regards to the recent change in adding the tag line when using web mail.......

--
Littleguy

someone does not understand
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: So what about this unwelcomed advertising?
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 03:15:06 GMT
From: "J. Douglas Tsosie" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

You want us to keep this active by posting our displeasure?

OK... I'm still mad as hell and I am shopping for another ISP. There is no advantage for staying with Worldnet and I am spreading the word to all.

Please pass my thoughts along. Although with no response from someone at AT&T that can explain questions that have gone unanswered, I would like to suggest you pass along a different route? There seems to be someone in the current route that does not understand what is being discussed here.

it is not company policy to explain
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: So what about this unwelcomed advertising?
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 03:21:38 GMT
From: AT&T Nick Trifonoff <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

We will share your comments with management.

That said, I am not certain I see what needs to be answered. The tag line was implemented. At this point to me the only thing that seems to be important is if management re-considers the implementation of this. It is not company policy to explain the rational behind business decisions or indeed even to comment on them.

As I have stated we are being customer advocates on the issue, there will not likely be any specific feedback given however.

laughs from Australia and Great Britain
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: So what about this unwelcomed advertising?
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 03:27:34 GMT
From: wc <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

As I stated, I implemented my own tag line, suggestion to the readers of my email not to patronize, in any manner, the firm that posts a tagline on my email, at the bottom . . .

It brought a couple of laughs, from Australia, and Great Britain.  At least it's getting some exposure.
 

violate terms and conditions
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Is AT&T making users violate the *Terms & Conditions*?
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 03:41:15 GMT
From: "Aquila" <@NOSPAMatt.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Hi again AT&T Admins :)

I was just looking through the WorldNet Service Agreement : http://www.worldnet.att.net/general-info/terms.html

And under the title: "Communicate, don't inundate."

Two things stand out.

#2. (Reads in part): "Don't send: (i) a piece of unsolicited commercial e-mail to any person; or (ii) any other unsolicited e-mail to more than 10 people if such e-mail could reasonably be expected to provoke complaints from its recipients (either shall be "Unsolicited E-Mail)".

#3.(Reads) "Submit promotional materials only in areas of the Service designated for that purpose."

If a WorldNet member uses the Message Center *exclusively* for their email, (Which some seem to prefer) have they not violated your terms and conditions per the above?

I'm guessing it would be safe in saying, many recipients of emails sent from the message center could: *reasonably be expected to complain* back to the sender about a *Promo* in the message they received. Or they might in fact complain to abuse@att.net .

Just some more observations :)

Cheers,
James Carpenter

interesting reading
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Is AT&T making users violate the *Terms & Conditions*?
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 03:45:59 GMT
From: AT&T Marie Gonzalez <@attecc.com>

Good evening James, Hi again back to you!

That is an interesting reading of the Terms and Conditions.  We will certainly pass it up to management for their consideration.

Thanks!
--
Marie Gonzalez
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

AT&T doing the very same thing
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Is AT&T making users violate the *Terms & Conditions*?
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 04:31:59 GMT
From: "Aquila" <@NOSPAMatt.net>

Your Welcome Marie :)

I just thought it ironic reading the Terms and Conditions. AT&T expects the users to be careful about sending a advertisements via email. Yet  AT&T is doing the very same thing, and I'm sure *Many* message center users are not even aware it.

The messages I've been seeing on the subject, suggest that *no one* was aware until they received a complaint from the recipient of their email. (Again the rule from AT&T's own Terms and Conditions applies :)

I guess I'm a little bothered that the *Users* must adhere to the T&C's, but the owners can change *Policy* without notice :)

Thanks for reading,
James Carpenter

your voices get heard
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Is AT&T making users violate the *Terms & Conditions*?
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 04:36:44 GMT
From: AT&T Marie Gonzalez <@attecc.com>

Good evening James,

I can understand your being bothered over this.  That is one of the reasons we are doing our best to make sure your voices get heard on this issue!
--
Marie Gonzalez
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Support Agent

many rungs in a ladder, one step at a time
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Is AT&T making users violate the *Terms & Conditions*?
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 04:51:55 GMT
From: "Aquila" <@NOSPAMatt.net>

I totally understand Marie :)

Please don't take my opinions as any sort of attack on you, or WorldNet. :)

There are always many rungs in a ladder, and all one can do is climb one step at a time.

The forum people here have always been nothing but *honorable* in their answers, and I respect all of you for the job you have to do :)

No complaints from me :)
James

unsavory... under the radar
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: So what about this unwelcomed advertising?
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 06:38:48 GMT
From: "Kathryn Simpson" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

AT&T WorldNet management made a decision to intrude on the content of our email without notifying or consulting with customers first.  This breach of trust deserves a serious response from management, not a passing of the buck with a "tell them 'thanks for sharing'" and hoping we will go away.  We have asked them to address the question of where in our Terms of Service have we given permission for AT&T WorldNet to intrude on the content of our personal communication?  I don't believe this has been answered yet.  TOS regarding changes to the service involve service issues and features, not ubiquitous carte blanc to hijack our personal communications for advertising purposes.

There is also the significant issue of why this new policy was implemented without any passive or active forewarning or notification to existing customers? Other features and changes in service are usually given a bit of limelight or forewarning.  This change was obviously an attempt to implement an unsavory advertising campaign "under the radar", hoping people wouldn't notice.

Personally, I see no difference in doing this than if AT&T came up with the "bright" idea to voice tag an ad at the beginning of every long distance call I make via AT&T or tag the content of every post I make to Usenet.  Wait... lets not give them any ideas.  :=(

Yesterday I spoke with WN Chat for Support.  The polite rep referred all comments about the web mail tag lines to the newsgroup help forums or to a snail mail address.  Specifically, I requested an email address so that I could web-mail the marketing department directly with my comments about the new tagline.  The chat for support rep said no such email address was publicly available and I could either post my concerns in the help forums or use the snail mail address.

It is frustrating and dismaying that neither WN Marketing or WN Management have yet been willing to directly address our concerns and frustrations on this issue. Instead, they insists on having feedback filtered and aggregated via statistics and reports on newsgroup complaints.  It is obvious that they do not value us as customers.  We are apparently only valued in the aggregate.  :=(

I'd webmail them to tell them that directly, but alas, they have decided that their ivory towers would be sullied by direct query. :=(  Perhaps you could please ask them, for me, when they intend to provide a serious and meaningful response to our concerns?  Or, sadly, should it be asked, "Is Management going to provide a response to our concerns or is Management going to remain aloof of any meaningful interaction with their customer base?".

Btw, kudos to the newsgroup reps who are maintaining their usual cool and composure.  It has to be frustrating to be the messenger on this issue.

--
Regards of the NW,
Kathy

AT&T violating common carrier laws?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Is AT&T making users violate the *Terms & Conditions*?
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 08:21:44 GMT
From: "Kathryn Simpson" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Another interesting statement in TOS...

"This means that you, and not AT&T, are entirely responsible for all Content that you upload, post, or otherwise transmit via the Service. AT&T does not control the Content posted via the Service and, as such, does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity or quality of such Content. "

If AT&T WorldNet is altering the content of my webmail, how can I be entirely responsible for it's content? Further, by adding the additional content, isn't AT&T exerting an extent of "control" over the content of my email?

Thus, wouldn't this violate AT&T's neutral status with regard to the "common carrier" laws (the usual reason given as to why AT&T WorldNet doesn't monitor the content of outside newsgroups)? If AT&T WorldNet monitors web mail content to ensure that it complies with their new marketing policy of including a tag line, isn't it is exerting "control" over content and thus create a possible issue with it's "common carrier" status?

--
Regards of the NW,
Kathy

Yahoo! users can pay to have their tag lines removed
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: AT&T Advertisements
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 18:40:26 GMT
From: "J" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.mail-server

Customer Service:

I have been an AT&T paying customer for about 4 years.  I have generally been satisfied with the dialup service, web speed, and e-mail reliability. I am disturbed to find that you have recently added an unwelcome signature to messages composed on the WebMail e-mail application.  These advertisements for AT&T are certainly not appropriate for paying customers.

We have come to expect such signatures as the price paid for "free" e-mail services such as MSN-Hotmail and Yahoo!  However, it is not appropriate to add these advertisements to paying customers on your ISP services.  Please remove them immediately.  This is truly an insult to your paying customer base.  If I was satisfied with advertisements at the bottom of my e-mail address, then I would be a regular Hotmail or Yahoo! e-mail user.  As it stands, I expect and pay monthly for SPAM-free, advertisement-free, reliable e-mail.    It's time to re-examine your standards and fix this problem before you start to lose your loyal customer base.

P.S. Even Yahoo! users can have the signatures removed from the bottom of their e-mail if they pay for the use of Yahoo! e-mail services.

well said
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Message Center tagline spam.  (Add my comments to the pile.)
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 18:53:43 GMT
From: "Dorothy Petrunia" <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

I rarely use the Message Center, and now I will make a serious effort not to use it at all.  Please add my "well said" to Michael Stewart's post.

Dorothy

AT&T is in violation of TOS
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Is AT&T making users violate the *Terms & Conditions*?
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 00:13:45 GMT
From: Randall Bart <@att.spam.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Yup.  AT&T is in violation of it's own TOS, in four or five ways.  It makes you wonder how they can raise a stink when anyone else violates the TOS.  If I send thousands of unsolicited email advertisements, can AT&T cancel my account?  AT&T has already sent hundreds of thousands.
--
RB |\  © Randall Bart

useless service
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: AT&T Msg. center is a useless service
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 01:11:14 GMT
From: Jay Sinha <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.software.mail.msg-ctr

When AT&T announced about msg. center, I thought cool, Worldnet is the best ISP.

I feel AT&T msg. center is a useless service and with tag lines at the end adds one more reason for not using msg. center.
-Jay

not yahoo free mail
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: So what about this unwelcomed advertising?
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 04:57:43 GMT
From: parrot head <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

This unwanted advertisement has just come to my attention, and I have been railing to some tech support flunkies via e-mail and their chat facility about it.  I want it to stop.  This is not yahoo free mail, nor are we AOL subscribers who think they have no choice.

I applaud Michael Stewarts remarks.  He has saved me from composing a quite similar monologue.

next escalation is PC magazines
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: So what about this unwelcomed advertising?
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 05:25:03 GMT
From: lordofthesquirrels <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

AT&T Nick Trifonoff wrote:
It is not company policy to explain the rational behind business decisions or indeed even to comment on them.

So... given that possibility, it might be to management's advantage to address this issue even though they don't have to.
 

abuse of power -- management whim
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: So what about this unwelcomed advertising?
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 05:45:55 GMT
From: "Michael Stewart" <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

"AT&T Nick Trifonoff" wrote in message:
We will share your comments with management.  That said, I am not certain I see what needs to be answered. The tag
line was implemented. At this point to me the only thing that seems to be important is if management re-considers the implementation of this.

At this point it is an issue of trust, and it makes a customer question the judgement of those in charge with respect to bigger issues, like protecting free speech, respecting privacy, living up to agreements, etc.  This time, they didn't even play by their own rules as we understood them.  They implemented something that customers feel is egregious, and in so doing raised doubts as to whether the company cares to be reputable or not. (Granted, some customers are more vocal than others.  But for each one who boils over in this forum, how many simmer quietly, maintain a low profile and wait to see if the situation is resolved to their satisfaction.)

Think about the current situation for a moment:  Because of the addition of the webtag advertisement (and Management's subsequent silence and inaction), there are already paying customers voluntarily adding their own anti-AT&T taglines to their outgoing POP email and sending it all over the world through AT&T's own POP servers.  (This can't be a Good Thing!)  Do you think that quietly eliminating the advertisement and hoping for the best would make this kind of anti-AT&T sentiment go away?

... It is not company policy to explain the rational(sp) behind business decisions or indeed
even to comment on them.

Your customers have just seen what we consider to be an abuse of power implemented on the whim of Management.  This effectively makes the term "company policy" synonymous with "whatever the company thinks they want at any given moment".  It was a bad idea, and customers are waiting for someone in authority to step up to the plate and say, "Okay, we 'get it' now, it was a bad idea".  If that doesn't happen, not only are they giving the impression that those in charge of AT&T WorldNet do not value integrity, but customers will also have to assume that this sort of hassle will pop up over and over again in the future.  And that would not be in anyone's best interest (except perhaps AT&T's competitors).

Sincerely,
   Mike Stewart
------------------------------------------------
At AT&T WorldNet, "ISP" apparently stands for "Insolent Self-Promoter"! http://www.isps.com/
 

autocratic brazeness
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: I H8 Webtags
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 06:08:58 GMT
From: Mervyn Duddy <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

I know this subject has been addressed several times, but AT&T management needs to know how many customers find their use of our email accounts for their spam to be unacceptable.

The brazenness of the action, and lack of response to these complaints, means that they probably do not even see the irony of the contrast between their anti-spam stance, and their own spamming actions.  In a business world with no control, no amount of profit is apparently ever enough.

I often use Message Center to send business correspondence, and this tag is not something I want business contacts to see (or friends for that matter).

It is understandable for free webmail services to use these tags, but to pay for Worldnet service and have no say in what gets tacked onto my messages is ludicrous.

In the five years I have been a Worldnet member, they have never been this autocratic, but if there is no way to get rid of this tag, I will have to consider changing my service.

Thanks,
Mervyn Duddy
 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Why AT&T is spamming my messages
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:15:59 GMT
From: Mritunjay Sinha <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Hi,

Why AT&T is spamming each messages sent through messages center by adding following lines

 ------------------------------------------------
Get the award winning ISP, AT&T WorldNet Service
http://download.att.net/webtag

If ISP itself start doing this, we can not expect them stop others for adding junk in your mails.

AT&T is a paid service and I don't expect to see this free ads. from AT&T in each and every message.

Are there different rules for using message center?

I am sure very we will see this in POP3 access too!!!!!!!!!!

-Jay

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Why AT&T is spamming my messages
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:38:29 GMT
From: AT&T Gage Robinson <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Mritunjay - the signature is placed only on email sent through the WorldNet Message Center.  They do not appear if you use a POP3 email client such as Agent, Eudora, Outlook or Outlook Express, Netscape Messenger and/or Pegasus.

We will get your note of displeasure regarding the tag line that appears only in mail sent through the Message Center to those that oversee and manage WorldNet.  Thanks.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Why AT&T is spamming my messages
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:35:45 GMT
From: Val <@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Thank you for passing along my objection to this practice as well. I especially don't appreciate that the practice was started without giving us any notice. I shudder to think of how tacky my business emails must've appeared to some my clients.

Val

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Why AT&T is spamming my messages
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:40:19 GMT
From: AT&T Gage Robinson <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Val - thanks for adding your concerns regarding the tag line placed only on email sent through the WorldNet Message Center.  They do not appear if you use a POP3 email client such as Agent, Eudora, Outlook or Outlook Express, Netscape Messenger and/or Pegasus.

We will get your note of displeasure regarding the tag line that appears only in mail sent through the Message Center to those that oversee and manage WorldNet.  Thanks.
 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Why AT&T is spamming my messages
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:38:20 GMT
From: Littleguy <@nojunk.att.com>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Gage,

You might note to management that Worldnet is a paid service by it's members.  Not a free service that are common with this sort of thing.

------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Why AT&T is spamming my messages
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:39:08 GMT
From: AT&T Gage Robinson <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

Your caveat is noted.  Thank you.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Why AT&T is spamming my messages
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:29:57 GMT
From: "J. Douglas Tsosie" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

As long as your passing on views to those that oversee and manage WorldNet. Tell them I'm not displeased with them adding on a tag line from notes sent from the WorldNet Message Center. TELL THEM I'M FREAKIN' MAD!!!

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Why AT&T is spamming my messages
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:37:13 GMT
From: AT&T Gage Robinson <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

jdtsosie, we will get your note of displeasure regarding the tag line that appears only in mail sent through the Message Center to those that oversee and manage WorldNet.

As noted, the signature is placed only on email sent through the WorldNet Message Center.  They do not appear if you use a POP3 email client such as Agent, Eudora, Outlook or Outlook Express, Netscape Messenger and/or Pegasus.

If you use the Message Center because you also access your mail while connected to another ISP, or while at the office or or while using a broadband connection, you might want to consider using a POP3 email client. It would you give you greater control managing, filtering and organizing your email.  In addition your mail would be downloaded to your computer and not remain on our mail servers ensuring you an extra measure over its security and availability even while off-line.

POP3 access to your email while connected at the office, or while connected to another ISP and/or broadband connection is available.  If you wish more information or help setting it up, please see:

http://www.wurd.com/eng/help/emailfaq.htm#q16
--
Littleguy

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Why AT&T is spamming my messages
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:24:51 GMT
From: lordofthesquirrels <@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

The new practice is exraordinarily tacky.  Although I have recommended AT&T to friends and associates, I will suspend this recommendation until Worldnet drops this practice.  If AT&T prefers a spam-type approach to spreading the word, so be it.

Incidentally, I know you're just making sure that the facts are clearly understood when you mention that the tag line is placed "only on email sent through the WorldNet Message Center."  However, the point is absolutely immaterial to the objections, since members have a right to the same standard of service regardless of which method of transmission they choose.  That choice should in no way effect the quality or substance of their e-mail.

AT&T is basically adopting a round-about approach by using their members to foist AT&T advertising on those to whom AT&T members correspond.  Call it what you will, the motivations and objectives are the same as for any other method of spam.  And to have done so without members' foreknowledge and consent is just sleezy.

Somebody screwed up.  They need to go back and think this one over.

Thanks.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Why AT&T is spamming my messages
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:27:42 GMT
From: AT&T Gage Robinson <@attecc.com>
Organization: AT&T Electronic Customer Care
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

lordofthesquirrels - thanks for sharing your take on the tag line inserted into outbound mail from the Message Center.  We'll relay verbatim your concerns on this to those that manage and oversee WorldNet.  Thanks!

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Why AT&T is spamming my messages
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 07:33:14 GMT
From: "D. Stussy" <@att.net>
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

The signature should not be added to ANY customer's message without his knowledge let alone consent.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Why AT&T is spamming my messages
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:05:37 GMT
From: AT&T Ron Crook <@att.net>
Organization: AT&T Worldnet
Newsgroups: worldnet.help.service-issues.suggestions

D. Stussy,
Thanks for sharing your comments.
--
Ron Crook
AT&T Electronic Customer Care - Newsgroup Network Liaison
 

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